Buildings with a covenant

[Missymoo]

Shouldn't be a massive problem to create some sort of outdoor shelter for that number of pigs without using the disputed building and would be a good selling point for your produce...The best weather of the year is in front of you and hardy rare breeds should perform well in straw bale shelters..

Certainly can't call 8 fattening pigs "Intensive" by any stretch of the imagination.

well they are not farting pigs they are breeding pigs to get fatting pigs I see your an ex dairy farmer, if you dont know howthe pig industry works and don’t have anything nice to say please don’t say anything at all, and move on

 

[bobk]

End of thread .

 

[choochter]

well they are not farting pigs they are breeding pigs to get fatting pigs I see your an ex dairy farmer, if you dont know howthe pig industry works and don’t have anything nice to say please don’t say anything at all, and move on

How rude of you.

 

[teslacoils]

Yes, I assumed the op leased some land including some diapidated buildings from a LL. It now appears there is a restriction on the use of some or part of the tenanted area that wasn't mentioned in the lease.

The covenant can't be enforced on the tenant. So the LL needs to sort it out. Depending on the structure of the lease, break clauses etc the simplest way may be to give the tenant notice.

 

[ISCO]

I would say your landlord has contracted to lease you some land and buildings for farming. It has now come to light that he cannot lease you part of the land (i.e. the buildings) for the farming you would quite reasonably want to do. You were not made aware of that covenant so could not have agreeed to it.

Your landlord, on the other hand, bought the land with that covenant in place as his solicitor should have discovered when doing the usual search.

If you want to fight this, you need to find yourself a good agricultural solicitor or land agent as you are not getting what you bargained for and need compensating. If your landlord was not aware of he covenant, then he may have a case against his solicitor who, it would seem, has been negligent.

If you lease some land for farming, you are surely bargaining for the right to farm that land. If you subsequently find the owner cannot lease the land for farming, I don't see how you could in any way be held liable. When an owner sells land with a restriction (covenant), he will expect to get less money for it. So the covenant has value. He cannot expect to get full value, as if the covenant didn't exist, if he now sells or rents it to a third party.

If the fbt is well drafted it will protect the landlord by saying tenant must comply with registered title covenants a copy of which should be provided.
It does depend on the agreement as to what can be done and also the length of agreement. If it's a yearly agreement not a lot that can be done as no security. If it's 20 year term then may be some bargaining to be done.
As to the landowner knowing the covenant was in place I find very few people actually remember covenants and rights attached to their land or house. I would only expect landowner to remember covenant if it actually prevented him doing something he wanted to do. If he never intended to keep pigs or imagined the tenant would then it is easily forgotten about over time.

 

[Still Farming]

We have been renting some land for about 3 years now on a business farm tenancy. Up until now we have never herd of any covenant that is apparently on the barns.
Apparently a covenant was put on the barns some 30 years ago for the guy who lives next door for there to never be pigs or poultry to be put in the barns, or any intensive farming to happen.
it doesn’t say that in our contract.
These barns are in very poor condition and cattle could never be put in them, so they are wasted.
We had no idea of this so we have bought some pigs (8 of them) and now we have been made aware of it. They are saying we have to remove them and put them outside but we have no shelter or pig arks for them to go outside.
iv been doing some research and surly because we are operating as a Business we could get around it with the competition law?
Our landlord has no experience in the agriculture sector or anything to do with farming.
Does anyone have any advise please anything would be greatly appreciated, thankyou

Are 8 pigs " intensive farming"???

 

[Missymoo]

Are 8 pigs " intensive farming"???

no I would t say so, they aren’t permanently staying in the barn, only till they are electric fence trained and the ground hardens up

 

[Still Farming]

no I would t say so, they aren’t permanently staying in the barn, only till they are electric fence trained and the ground hardens up

What does the landowner or person(s) you rent it off say?

 

[teslacoils]

no I would t say so, they aren’t permanently staying in the barn, only till they are electric fence trained and the ground hardens up

So it's only a temporary problem then. All will be fine. I'll make a wild assumption that the next door house is pretty posh, potentially early retired, professional, dog walker types with nothing else to do.

Pigs in buildings = problem.
Problem now aware.
Pigs soon out of buildings.

All will be well.

 

[Missymoo]

What does the landowner or person(s) you rent it off say?

the son say there was a covenant on the land between his dad and the neighbors, Iv looked at the title Deeds for the neighbors (they bought the property of our landlords) there is no covenant in his saying he has power over the barns like he says he does. But I can’t find the title deeds for the land we rent, we are waiting on an email with prof from the land lord

 

[PSQ]

If a copy of the covenant cant be produced to back up the claims, then all that is left is an unsubstantiated claim.
Whether or not it's worth forcing the issue and causing the LL and the neighbour to 'get excited' is another matter, but the reality is that it should have been disclosed prior to you taking the tenancy.

 

[Missymoo]

So it's only a temporary problem then. All will be fine. I'll make a wild assumption that the next door house is pretty posh, potentially early retired, professional, dog walker types with nothing else to do.

Pigs in buildings = problem.
Problem now aware.
Pigs soon out of buildings.

All will be well.

yeah that is exactly right aha, someone who moved to the countryside but doesn’t actually want to see the countryside!

 

[Still Farming]

the son say there was a covenant on the land between his dad and the neighbors, Iv looked at the title Deeds for the neighbors (they bought the property of our landlords) there is no covenant in his saying he has power over the barns like he says he does. But I can’t find the title deeds for the land we rent, we are waiting on an email with prof from the land lord

Do it yourself at:-

HM Land Registry

We register the ownership of land and property in England and Wales. HM Land Registry is a non-ministerial department.

www.gov.uk

Only a couple of quid for Title and same for Title plan?

 

[Missymoo]

Do it yourself at:-https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry
Only a couple of quid for Title and same for Title plan?

I can’t find the title plans for the land we are renting at all, it’s like it doesn’t exist

 

[Kidds]

At the end of the day, buying an ark is still the cheapest, simplest option.

 

[Courier]

well they are not farting pigs they are breeding pigs to get fatting pigs I see your an ex dairy farmer, if you dont know howthe pig industry works and don’t have anything nice to say please don’t say anything at all, and move on

So the "*8" pigs are in fact 8 sows with a potential of rearing over 200 per year....That's a lot of pork to sell privately but good luck...I'll have half a pig off you.

 

[teslacoils]

yeah that is exactly right aha, someone who moved to the countryside but doesn’t actually want to see the countryside!

Best for all that the pigs get out on the field asap. Really. Neighbours will be proper pains otherwise. Curtains twitching, binoculars out. Complaints to everyone. Cutting your wire and then complaining they have got out. Unless you've spent a filthy fortune on the buildings then it really won't be worth the hassle. Then spend some time seeing what you can do with temporary structures outside. Unless they are vegans, send them some free sausages. Always fight arseholes with extreme kindness.

 

[Nearly]

yeah that is exactly right aha, someone who moved to the countryside but doesn’t actually want to see the countryside!

There's a big difference between seeing the countryside and having pigs in the shed next to your house when there's a covenant preventing that.

The Land Registry search is a pain. You have to zoom in until it lets you do a map search.

The information will be there if it has changed hands in last 30 years.

 

[Still Farming]

I can’t find the title plans for the land we are renting at all, it’s like it doesn’t exist

Should be there unless unregistered and still on paper deeds?
If sold within last 10-20 years should be there.
Maybe widen search a bit as could be in a bigger parcel possibly?
You can alway contact HMLR and their'll find for you.

 

[Dry Rot]

If the fbt is well drafted it will protect the landlord by saying tenant must comply with registered title covenants a copy of which should be provided.
It does depend on the agreement as to what can be done and also the length of agreement. If it's a yearly agreement not a lot that can be done as no security. If it's 20 year term then may be some bargaining to be done.
As to the landowner knowing the covenant was in place I find very few people actually remember covenants and rights attached to their land or house. I would only expect landowner to remember covenant if it actually prevented him doing something he wanted to do. If he never intended to keep pigs or imagined the tenant would then it is easily forgotten about over time.

If the OP had used a solicitor, he could sue him for professional negligence! Maybe he still could! That's the one reason I'd always use a professional for anything like that, unless of course I could afford to lose the money.