Bull choice for heifers

[Dafydd]

Anyone know of the Deerhouse herd in the Preston area? That’s where Jackpot is now

I believe he’s moved on again, but still in the Preston area

 

[muleman]

I think you need some higher gates

Big gates or small bull????

 

[Skintagain]

Big gates or small bull????

Giraffe gates or dexter x bull?

 

[johnspeehs]

Weve got calves by a son of his, very pleased with them , bit of length and style to them, jackpot be ideal for the 3 thick heifers above!

Glad to here his style is coming through in his sons, I just bought a son of jackpot out of an ampertaine elgin cow and really like the look of him, he might be a wee bit stilty on his back legs but i think it wont do him any harm, has served a few cows already.

 

[sjewart]

Im going to phone Genus on Tuesday to check exactly what lim bulls I have the choice of [emoji4]

 

[muleman]

Glad to here his style is coming through in his sons, I just bought a son of jackpot out of an ampertaine elgin cow and really like the look of him, he might be a wee bit stilty on his back legs but i think it wont do him any harm, has served a few cows already.

Maybe not those really thick blocky types but long smart stylish ones i think, i like them anyways, if yours is out of an elgin thats even better!

 

[johnspeehs]

Maybe not those really thick blocky types but long smart stylish ones i think, i like them anyways, if yours is out of an elgin thats even better!

I like those types, its always nice to be able to keep a few hfrs , not easy if they are very blocky.

 

[sjewart]

Right I can definitely have Lodge Hamlet.
Possible Lennox.
Can have Tomschoice Nation and Tomschoice Onslow but they are unproven.

Any thoughts? My heifers are 616kg, 670 and 720kg so plenty size but still heifers [emoji848]

 

[Banktopman]

We used Hamlet on our sim heifers this year. Small birth weights yet nice shaped calves so providing you don't over feed your cows I would recommend him.

 

[sjewart]

We used Hamlet on our sim heifers this year. Small birth weights yet nice shaped calves so providing you don't over feed your cows I would recommend him.

Some will have Lodge Hamlet straws. Just wondered if anyone used Lennox? Fancy trying one straw of something else.

 

[Banktopman]

We tried a Lennox last time on a cow as a bit of a test. She went 290 days, bull calf and she had it unassisted. We have had bigger Hamlet calves that's for certain. Make of that what you like but we will be using a couple on heifers this year.

 

[sjewart]

We tried a Lennox last time on a cow as a bit of a test. She went 290 days, bull calf and she had it unassisted. We have had bigger Hamlet calves that's for certain. Make of that what you like but we will be using a couple on heifers this year.

Thank you, sounds a possible then.

 

[pat kcotnit]

Some will have Lodge Hamlet straws. Just wondered if anyone used Lennox? Fancy trying one straw of something else.

We have used Lennox a fair bit and I can't remember having any problems with his offspring. Usually calf's are smaller than average at birth, but we have only used him on cows, not heifers. We calf heifers at 2 yrs old and since Conan is no longer available (we used to bull the AA heifers with Conan, limousin heifers with AA ploughman) have bulled them all with AA (tried Oakchurch Darcy and HW Fletcher on heifers that calved this spring, will all be done with Fletcher for next year!) in recent years.
If using lim from genus on heifers I would use Lennox, not hamlet. Lennox more consistent for easy calving than hamlet and although hamlet calves are more shapey, Lennox calves will be faster growing and heavier at the same age and still have shape.
Onslow and Nation we will be able to make a comment later in the year as we are calving a few cows to them in august/September. We do have 2 or 3 onslow calves just now but too early to say if any good (calved OK if I remember correctly)
Edit: just looked at our spring calvers records, got 3 Lennox calves, 2 out of 3 assisted but not difficult births, all out of 2nd calvers. 33 (31 live calves) lodge calves, 7 of which were assisted all out of older cows, 2 born dead in that 7. We have not had a good calving this year, bigger calves than normal. My observations above on Lennox are from calving cows in our autumn herd last year.
We have 1 onslow calf only, and it was massive and needed assistance, but maybe a one off ( I hope so!)

 

[Johngee]

Some will have Lodge Hamlet straws. Just wondered if anyone used Lennox? Fancy trying one straw of something else.

Our stock bull is a paternal half brother to Lennox and it’s very rare that we have to assist a calving with him, even with heifers. Think the last time was April 2019. According to the breeder (Jonathan Watson) their father Goldies Goldmine was also very easy calving.

 

[sjewart]

Our stock bull is a paternal half brother to Lennox and it’s very rare that we have to assist a calving with him, even with heifers. Think the last time was April 2019. According to the breeder (Jonathan Watson) their father Goldies Goldmine was also very easy calving.

Thank you, promising.

 

[sjewart]

We have used Lennox a fair bit and I can't remember having any problems with his offspring. Usually calf's are smaller than average at birth, but we have only used him on cows, not heifers. We calf heifers at 2 yrs old and since Conan is no longer available (we used to bull the AA heifers with Conan, limousin heifers with AA ploughman) have bulled them all with AA (tried Oakchurch Darcy and HW Fletcher on heifers that calved this spring, will all be done with Fletcher for next year!) in recent years.
If using lim from genus on heifers I would use Lennox, not hamlet. Lennox more consistent for easy calving than hamlet and although hamlet calves are more shapey, Lennox calves will be faster growing and heavier at the same age and still have shape.
Onslow and Nation we will be able to make a comment later in the year as we are calving a few cows to them in august/September. We do have 2 or 3 onslow calves just now but too early to say if any good (calved OK if I remember correctly)
Edit: just looked at our spring calvers records, got 3 Lennox calves, 2 out of 3 assisted but not difficult births, all out of 2nd calvers. 33 (31 live calves) lodge calves, 7 of which were assisted all out of older cows, 2 born dead in that 7. We have not had a good calving this year, bigger calves than normal. My observations above on Lennox are from calving cows in our autumn herd last year.
We have 1 onslow calf only, and it was massive and needed assistance, but maybe a one off ( I hope so!)

I'm selling heifers with calves at foot so I can't deny shapely is important but I think from what you say it wouldn't be silly to try one Lennox straw. Afterall Lodge Hamlet is not always straightforward either.

Thank you for sharing your figures, it gives me a much better insight than I had before.

Hope your next calving goes better for you. Nothing worse than big, difficult or dead calves.

 

[Purli R]

. According to the breeder (Jonathan Watson) their father Goldies Goldmine was also very easy calving.

I'm sure he was, but he isn't going to say that it was hard calving now is he??!!
Or is that just me being cynical?
At the bull sales, everything is a "son of easy calving XXXXX" even when you know full well XXXXX was a bugger to calve after.
Personally I'd bull them with a BB, short gestations.

 

[pat kcotnit]

I'm sure he was, but he isn't going to say that it was hard calving now is he??!!
Or is that just me being cynical?
At the bull sales, everything is a "son of easy calving XXXXX" even when you know full well XXXXX was a bugger to calve after.
Personally I'd bull them with a BB, short gestations.

We have found with Tweeddale Lennox calves that they virtually all have a bit of white in them. Even out of cows that are virtually pure (red) limousin. Does the breeder not also have a herd of BB?!

 

[CollCrofter]

Looks great but his EBVs are rubbish, particularly calvng ease with regard to the OP's query? Of course experience or the calving survey may tell a different story.

I spent long enough staring at EBVs ahead of the bulls themselves, not now... Also why I tend to go try and get an older bull and from people I know well. Hence the latest lad I'm hopefully getting from McBeath in Stirling. Vantastic and Sympa grandson.

Example, pedigree heifer up in the shed ready to calf down to Ampertaine Magnum, who on paper has a very, very short gestation length for the breed average.. due date 25th but still looks a good few days away. IMO, EBVs aren't all they are cracked up to be, especially when you look at most of the accuracy percentages. Big fleshy bulls I'll have no issue using, big flesh with big bone behind then I might think twice

 

[Woolless]

I spent long enough staring at EBVs ahead of the bulls themselves, not now... Also why I tend to go try and get an older bull and from people I know well. Hence the latest lad I'm hopefully getting from McBeath in Stirling. Vantastic and Sympa grandson.

Example, pedigree heifer up in the shed ready to calf down to Ampertaine Magnum, who on paper has a very, very short gestation length for the breed average.. due date 25th but still looks a good few days away. IMO, EBVs aren't all they are cracked up to be, especially when you look at most of the accuracy percentages. Big fleshy bulls I'll have no issue using, big flesh with big bone behind then I might think twice

I can understand your view. The small size of most pedigree beef herds doesn't lend itself to accurate EBVs, hence my comment regarding calving surveys. Your plan of getting an older bull from someone you know makes sense.

The principle behind EBVs is perfectly sound, execution is lacking at times.