Bull pen for detecting heats?

[crashbox]

Hi all, just wondering people's experience of having a bull in a pen, near the outlet of the parlour, to help spot bullers? I.e. if a cow is hanging around the bull looking interested, pick her out for service.

We have different people in the parlour so looking for a very simple, easy way of detecting them for AI... this would be for a short period say a few weeks before reverting to bulls.

We are currently natural service on the herd, with AI sexed on the maiden heifers with scratch cards.

Thanks,

CB

 

[Ballygreenan]

Why not use tail paint?

 

[buffalo_soldier]

Used to do the bull pen thing back in the day.
Sort of works but you need more observations than just at milkings.
Scrachcards I think would be better.

Why not use tail paint?

There is an element of interpretation with paint. So you really need as few people doing it as possible, which doesn't sound applicable here.

 

[Rossymons]

There is an element of interpretation with paint. So you really need as few people doing it as possible, which doesn't sound applicable here.

There is an element of interpretation with scratch cards too but I agree with your point. In my job it's those partial rubs or marginal calls that the farmer pays us for as they're the ones that would have been missed.

 

[Rossymons]

Hi all, just wondering people's experience of having a bull in a pen, near the outlet of the parlour, to help spot bullers? I.e. if a cow is hanging around the bull looking interested, pick her out for service.

We have different people in the parlour so looking for a very simple, easy way of detecting them for AI... this would be for a short period say a few weeks before reverting to bulls.

We are currently natural service on the herd, with AI sexed on the maiden heifers with scratch cards.

Thanks,

CB

It sounds like heat detection is an issue either because of time or lack of skills from whoever is with the cows at milking time.

I'm not sold on the bull pen option really. Suitable bull pens dont come cheap, you have to buy the bull and feed him too. What if he's no good? What if he's an absolute b#####d and turns one day hurting someone?

So it leaves you 2 options really.

1)Contract it out to someone else which you may nor not be keen on.

2)Buy come collars. Depending on which ones you buy they can be very good at providing clear and concise data. Get the app on yours and your milkers phone and any cows on high activity get them picked out ready for service.

 

[Conrod96]

We’ve a bull pen attached to the cubicle house works well for spotting cows but as said above need more observation than just once or twice a day

 

[crashbox]

Thanks for thoughts so far.

A bit more info:
We use estrotec patches on maiden heifers, check once a day, only started this year, 60 to 70% conception from sexed semen. Pleased with system. Agree that partial rubs are open to interpretation.

Main herd:
Bulls run with cows. Keen to move away from this for genetic selection reasons, and bulls have their own risks.
Tail paint good idea but yard set up makes it hard to cast your eye round cows without doing multiple laps of cubicle house and up all alleys. Would have to gate off cow brushes too.

Confident that we could cast eyes past the bull pen several times a day. If a cow is close to the bull, shut a gate and she's there ready to walk into the AI pen (or mark up ready for picking out at milking). Or so goes the theory...

CB

 

[crashbox]

We’ve a bull pen attached to the cubicle house works well for spotting cows but as said above need more observation than just once or twice a day

Sounds like what I'm thinking! Do you use other methods also (tail paint, collars, etc.), or just visual checks?

TIA

 

[Jdunn55]

Thanks for thoughts so far.

A bit more info:
We use estrotec patches on maiden heifers, check once a day, only started this year, 60 to 70% conception from sexed semen. Pleased with system. Agree that partial rubs are open to interpretation.

Main herd:
Bulls run with cows. Keen to move away from this for genetic selection reasons, and bulls have their own risks.
Tail paint good idea but yard set up makes it hard to cast your eye round cows without doing multiple laps of cubicle house and up all alleys. Would have to gate off cow brushes too.

Confident that we could cast eyes past the bull pen several times a day. If a cow is close to the bull, shut a gate and she's there ready to walk into the AI pen (or mark up ready for picking out at milking). Or so goes the theory...

CB

If you're pleased with the heifers system why not implement the same system for the cows?

 

[Conrod96]

Sounds like what I'm thinking! Do you use other methods also (tail paint, collars, etc.), or just visual checks?

TIA

Cows are just visual checks about 10 times a day for the first 3 months of serving then as the spring workload and field work increases we would move to collars don’t have enough for the whole herd is the reason we don’t use them from the start.
We’re not a tight block calving either but do try to calve most of our cows from September to Christmas hope this helps! Can send some photos of the pen later if you’d like

 

[crashbox]

Cows are just visual checks about 10 times a day for the first 3 months of serving then as the spring workload and field work increases we would move to collars don’t have enough for the whole herd is the reason we don’t use them from the start.
We’re not a tight block calving either but do try to calve most of our cows from September to Christmas hope this helps! Can send some photos of the pen later if you’d like

Yes that would be great

 

[Farmer Keith]

I’d just be serving any questionable rubs/bullers myself, the only way to guarantee you don’t get them in calf is not to serve them. Let’s be honest that’s all that the RMS type services do anyways. You can buy a hell of a tail paint for the price of a bull. I mark/check them as I milk.

 

[crashbox]

If you're pleased with the heifers system why not implement the same system for the cows?

Fair point. If I have a group of 30 heifers, pad them up, feed 2kg concentrate a day and while they're at the troughs go round and spot the pads. 1 person can manage easy.

Dairy has different people on different days, more cows, all dispersed around cubicles/yard/feed trailers. Good chance pads won't be spotted on day 1, and cows picked out too late.

Also not sure how easy it is to see tail heads from the pit as cows quite tall (or maybe I'm too short??)?

 

[manhill]

Watch for fluttering eyelids, rubbing the rear end against a gate, dribbling slime, swollen vulva, all indications of being ready to mate.
Cows also behave similarly!

 

[farmer JD]

Watch for fluttering eyelids, rubbing the rear end against a gate, dribbling slime, swollen vulva, all indications of being ready to mate.
Cows also behave similarly!

Haha made me laugh

 

[Conrod96]

this is just a rough look at ours bulls get water and silage down the front end there’s an area there for free standing serving or can be put into the headlock if we’re going to ai her

 

[farmerdan7618]

Done something a bit like this, although it was just how space worked out rather than for heat detection.

Bull + his group of heifers were in a shed and yard that ran alongside the collecting yard. Bullers would spend the milking at the gate between the two areas, and then all come in together last.

Made shedding easy, and probably helped heat detection, but didn't do it for that reason. Would also say that I'm not a fan of bull pens, don't like keeping them by themselves. Not good for the bull or the perception of farming in my view.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Agree, keeping a bull (or any livestock) on their own is unfair and won't do their temperament any good. Best off in with a group of heifers or other cows.

 

[crashbox]

Yes we tend to run ours in pairs that know (and like) each other.
Thinking this could work for a few weeks while we AI before letting them sweep up.

 

[crashbox]

this is just a rough look at ours bulls get water and silage down the front end there’s an area there for free standing serving or can be put into the headlock if we’re going to ai her

Thanks for posting, looks a good strong job!