Buying land with AHA 1986 tenancy in place

[kb70]

Hi all,
Looking for a bit of advice regarding buying land by informal tender, the land in question is approx 4 acres of arable land laid to pasture currently , but it is subject to AHA 1986 tenancy. Am I correct in thinking this means the land has a tenant farmer who uses the land and pays rent to whomever owns it?
It has been a dream of mine to own a piece of land as I am interested in conservation and wildlife/birds and be cool to camp out a little too. I ow have the funds in place so it can now become a reality. However if the land has a tenant who is using the field how much freedom would I have to use it, even if just a small area? I have searched the internet for advice but haven't found anything specific to what the buyer of such land is able to do.
The land has a guide price of offers over £15k, so I have no clue how much would be a fair offer, any advice really appreciated.

 

[holmes65]

If the land has a Tennant on a aha tenancy you have no rights to use it unless you come to an agreement with them. The tenant may be willing to give up the tenancy if you were to pay him out. That could cost anything up to 50% of the freehold value.

 

[7610 super q]

AVOID !!!! The land has a tenant that could possibly pass it on 2 generations. You may never get to use it.
At the very least, take professional advice before making an offer.
Look at the other AHA tenancy threads on here....
And run a mile......

 

[kb70]

AVOID !!!! The land has a tenant that could possibly pass it on 2 generations. You may never get to use it.
At the very least, take professional advice before making an offer.
Look at the other AHA tenancy threads on here....
And run a mile......

Will definitely get legal advice before making any offer, thank you for your reply.

 

[kb70]

If the land has a Tennant on a aha tenancy you have no rights to use it unless you come to an agreement with them. The tenant may be willing to give up the tenancy if you were to pay him out. That could cost anything up to 50% of the freehold value.

That is what I wondered, I have no idea who the tenant is so cant enter into any discussion over usage. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Forkdriver]

I had to sell a small farm as an executor of a will. I offered it to the tenant at valuation, but the tenant thought he was entitled to a big discount. He didn't bid when it went on the open market and sold for £250 k more. He missed out big time, and called me all sorts. I pointed out that I wasn't in a position to deny the beneficiaries of a sum of money and I expect that he is still kicking himself.

 

[betweenthelines]

If the OP has to ask such questions, then he shouldn't even think about buying

 

[kb70]

If the OP has to ask such questions, then he shouldn't even think about buying

Wow that was really helpful! Thanks We are not all knowledgeable on such matters hence why these forums exist to seek advice and reach out to people with experience in any particular area.

 

[Coximus]

Wow that was really helpful! Thanks We are not all knowledgeable on such matters hence why these forums exist to seek advice and reach out to people with experience in any particular area.

to give you an idea of what your in for, and why 4 acres if 15k and not 40k.....

I purchased an AHA tenancy off a chap who held it in ltd company on 9.4 acres. The year before a couple from london had brought the land for 40k wanting to start the good life in yorkshire.

3 years on, I am farming the land, paying £12 an acre a year rent, and can and will continue to do so, as long as I wish. They have offered me the land for 20k to be shot of it.

You cant move an AHA tennant off without their consent, and they may have 100 years or more potentially left in the tenancy, hence 15k for 4ac as the price.

I suggest speaking to a Land agent and an Agricultural solicitor before even entertaining a bid.

 

[tepapa]

The long and the short of it is that it's probably worthless to anybody but the current tennant. Who doesn't need to buy it as they could rent it indefinitely and possibly pass it on to another generation or two.

If the op plans to have their own piece of Britain (I assume it's England) then they will unlikely be able to do anything with it unless they could do a deal with the tennant to allow some sort of regular access. The chance of planting a woodland and wild flower meadow for your benefit is almost out of the question unless you could come up with a hefty figure for the tennant to relinquish the tenancy.

 

[getting on]

The long and the short of it is that it's probably worthless to anybody but the current tennant. Who doesn't need to buy it as they could rent it indefinitely and possibly pass it on to another generation or two.

If the op plans to have their own piece of Britain (I assume it's England) then they will unlikely be able to do anything with it unless they could do a deal with the tennant to allow some sort of regular access. The chance of planting a woodland and wild flower meadow for your benefit is almost out of the question unless you could come up with a hefty figure for the tennant to relinquish the tenancy.

Is'nt everyone missing a point here. If a landlord can prove material change of use of the land he can get possession. Get advice.

 

[DRC]

The long and the short of it is that it's probably worthless to anybody but the current tennant. Who doesn't need to buy it as they could rent it indefinitely and possibly pass it on to another generation or two.

If the op plans to have their own piece of Britain (I assume it's England) then they will unlikely be able to do anything with it unless they could do a deal with the tennant to allow some sort of regular access. The chance of planting a woodland and wild flower meadow for your benefit is almost out of the question unless you could come up with a hefty figure for the tennant to relinquish the tenancy.

Passing on 4 acres will be tricky, as a successor needs to prove they have earned ALL their income from it for the previous 7 years, and that it’s a viable unit.

 

[Salopian_Will]

Passing on 4 acres will be tricky, as a successor needs to prove they have earned ALL their income from it for the previous 7 years, and that it’s a viable unit.

Not quite true. You can succeed to a small part of land and any number of tenancies - you have to demonstrate that your livelihood (to a material extent) is derived from the agricultural unit of which the holding (that tenancy) forms part. The agricultural unit can be made up of many individual tenancies. It does not need to be 100% of your income either.

 

[DRC]

Not quite true. You can succeed to a small part of land and any number of tenancies - you have to demonstrate that your livelihood (to a material extent) is derived from the agricultural unit of which the holding (that tenancy) forms part. The agricultural unit can be made up of many individual tenancies. It does not need to be 100% of your income either.

Sounds like the devils in the detail. I best do more research on it.

 

[kb70]

to give you an idea of what your in for, and why 4 acres if 15k and not 40k.....

I purchased an AHA tenancy off a chap who held it in ltd company on 9.4 acres. The year before a couple from london had brought the land for 40k wanting to start the good life in yorkshire.

3 years on, I am farming the land, paying £12 an acre a year rent, and can and will continue to do so, as long as I wish. They have offered me the land for 20k to be shot of it.

You cant move an AHA tennant off without their consent, and they may have 100 years or more potentially left in the tenancy, hence 15k for 4ac as the price.

I suggest speaking to a Land agent and an Agricultural solicitor before even entertaining a bid.

Many thanks for your reply, I wouldnt want to get rid of the tenant, just have access to camp and so on watch wildlife but I dont no the tenant so cant negotiate if he/she would be willing to do that.

 

[kb70]

Many thanks for all your replies, I appreciate the advice and it pretty much backs up what I feared, that I could get the land but have no access to enjoy it unless the tenant was extremely generous or getting on in years with no one to pass it to.

 

[Exfarmer]

By law , unless the tenancy agreement has anything else stated in it. The tenant has the right to the peaceful enjoyment of the property. Any action by the Landlord to the contrary, is considered a serious offence , which could lead to jail.
However, if the Landlord can get planning on the property, it can lead to an automatic end to the tenancy, with compensation as little as 4 X the annual rent

 

[Sharpy]

Many thanks for all your replies, I appreciate the advice and it pretty much backs up what I feared, that I could get the land but have no access to enjoy it unless the tenant was extremely generous or getting on in years with no one to pass it to.

Turning this view on its head, if you could come to an arrangement with the tenant you could have the access and maintenance you want at no ongoing cost save say a reduction in rent payable.

 

[Coximus]

Many thanks for your reply, I wouldnt want to get rid of the tenant, just have access to camp and so on watch wildlife but I dont no the tenant so cant negotiate if he/she would be willing to do that.

As a tennant, bar an inspection I would refuse LL access, especially to camp or just potter around with, family.... its an insurance and H&S nightmare.
Remember farm land is no different to a factory. Its a dangerous working environment and someone camping is a disaster you cant insure.

Sounds like a war for 15k which is madness

 

[kb70]

As a tennant, bar an inspection I would refuse LL access, especially to camp or just potter around with, family.... its an insurance and H&S nightmare.
Remember farm land is no different to a factory. Its a dangerous working environment and someone camping is a disaster you cant insure.

Sounds like a war for 15k which is madness

Thanks for replying and I quite agree with you, but I would be mindful of this and would only access the land when the tenant wasnt working in it. Regarding insurance and HS matters Im not sure but I have seen fields full of metal detectorists while they are working the land but dont seem to worry.