Bye bye coal, hello expensive heating.

[farmerm]

I have electric storage heaters and open fires in a listed 600 year old house. A sensible heating system will cost £10000s and I have a landlords agent to deal with.

I think some people should think more on the effects of the regulations they come up with. But then in your suburban terrace with gas on tap you don’t need to worry about the peasants in the countryside

Bg

Oil and gas are next in line to go...

 

[Overby]

Big developments in domestic battery storage not far away. That will make a huge difference to those with solar etc.

 

[Still Farming]

I grew up in London and the fogs were terrible, everyone burned coal.

But without it we won't have been the Country that ruled most of the World?

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

How does that get round the regs? Genuinely interested.

Selling coal for domestic use in England

Rules for coal merchants and retailers selling traditional house coal for use in domestic appliances in England.

www.gov.uk

The new regs clearly specify "open bags", probably to discourage the suburbanites who have no coal storage but see an open fire as a fashion accessory.

 

[Courier]

But without it we won't have been the Country that ruled most of the World?

Note the "Past Tense" - But now we need to face facts, get real and co-operate.

 

[Exfarmer]

Big developments in domestic battery storage not far away. That will make a huge difference to those with solar etc.

I cannot see how batteries will make much difference for domestic solar, since the bulk of production is in the summer and the usage is in the winter

 

[Still Farming]

Note the "Past Tense" - But now we need to face facts, get real and co-operate.

Whose not co operating?
While Steel works still pump

it out?

 

[Overby]

I cannot see how batteries will make much difference for domestic solar, since the bulk of production is in the summer and the usage is in the winter

Still decent generation in the winter as long as not dark! There are apparently options coming for even small scale to be connected to the grid giving storage and cheaper usage. We'll see.

 

[Still Farming]

Lots of eu Countries SO RELIANT on coal to their economies they will never ban it?

 

[farmerm]

I cannot see how batteries will make much difference for domestic solar, since the bulk of production is in the summer and the usage is in the winter

will just need to be very big batteries... Pre oil age our ancestors harvested and stored summer sunshine to fill the winter energy gap, their solar batteries were hay, oats, timber.....

 

[milkloss]

Do people still put cat flaps in doors. Could never understand how you restrict access just to your own cat.

At least with a dog door the Mrs can't lock me out when she doesn't leave the key behind. Get a good face wash on the way in though.

 

[Exfarmer]

Still decent generation in the winter as long as not dark! There are apparently options coming for even small scale to be connected to the grid giving storage and cheaper usage. We'll see.

As somebody with considerable experience of PV I can assure you , the average production from a Southern facing set up on an average roof your production with be in the order of 1Kwh per day per Kw installed over the months November to February. There will also be days of near zero production thanks to mist and snow.
So an average 4 Kw install is not going get you that warm. placing the panels East West will reduce the production far more in the winter too, even though for most householders it will give a better production and usage pattern

 

[Exfarmer]

At least with a dog door the Mrs can't lock me out when she doesn't leave the key behind. Get a good face wash on the way in though.

Friend could not understand how her cat was getting very thin but eating vast amounts of food and being wormed regularly.
One day hearing as. noise went down to find the neighbours cat emptying the bowl in her kitchen

 

[Overby]

As somebody with considerable experience of PV I can assure you , the average production from a Southern facing set up on an average roof your production with be in the order of 1Kwh per day per Kw installed over the months November to February. There will also be days of near zero production thanks to mist and snow.
So an average 4 Kw install is not going get you that warm. placing the panels East West will reduce the production far more in the winter too, even though for most householders it will give a better production and usage pattern

I've got 30kw myself, we still get some production, even on the shittiest days. If you then have a battery system which allows you to take cheaper electric from the grid when you need it, whilst also storing or selling excess at other times the system will work.

 

[Exfarmer]

I've got 30kw myself, we still get some production, even on the shittiest days. If you then have a battery system which allows you to take cheaper electric from the grid when you need it, whilst also storing or selling excess at other times the system will work.

Good luck paying for your batteries!

 

[Overby]

Obviously it'll depend on the deal / figures quoted when it appears.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Good luck paying for your batteries!

Have you seen Olaf Nilsson's hydrogen storage system? https://nilssonenergy.com/portfolio-item/demo-site/

Very expensive back in 2015 but will drop in price fast when volumes ramp up, like all other renewable technologies.

Combined with higher efficiency PV panels now in development it opens up even high latitudes to annual energy autonomy.

 

[Overby]

The North Sea Link and IFA2 are going to change things too.....not always for the better ie Jersey. Things are changing though and battery storage is a must if we are to be more self sufficient in heating, elec etc.

 

[Wisconsonian]

Sorry I'm late to the party.

Weren't older urban coal power plants usually district heating plants also? so getting a higher efficiency than a modern gas generator outside the city.

Battery storage has been just around the corner for a while now. I'm skeptical battery storage will come anywhere close to meeting the need created by the foolish switching to electric heating. The recent events in Texas have shown the problem of over reliance on natural gas for generating electricity and heating, to say nothing of gas turbines being the "back up" for inherently unreliable solar and wind. Without coal fired baseload power stations, even a smart grid will require people to freeze through cold spells, or have solid fuel backup heat.

Air source heat pumps compound the system wide problem even further, reducing electrical demand only in mild weather, and increasing peak demand, BAD IDEA for system reliability, that is, having power when you need it to survive.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Sorry I'm late to the party.

Weren't older urban coal power plants usually district heating plants also? so getting a higher efficiency than a modern gas generator outside the city.

Battery storage has been just around the corner for a while now. I'm skeptical battery storage will come anywhere close to meeting the need created by the foolish switching to electric heating. The recent events in Texas have shown the problem of over reliance on natural gas for generating electricity and heating, to say nothing of gas turbines being the "back up" for inherently unreliable solar and wind. Without coal fired baseload power stations, even a smart grid will require people to freeze through cold spells, or have solid fuel backup heat.

Air source heat pumps compound the system wide problem even further, reducing electrical demand only in mild weather, and increasing peak demand, BAD IDEA for system reliability, that is, having power when you need it to survive.

Your concern mirrors that of many people when South Australia choose to go all renewable around 2010. In 2016 they had a state wide blackout in 2016 for the reasons you say. Since then they have put measures in place that store enough power to prevent it happening again.

It can be done although I accept Texas is much more populated.

Edit: I originally posted "They now have amongst the cheapest energy in the world" but I was wrong. I based the comment on a recent BBC science programme.