Climate Change & the Farmgate

[wanton dwarf]

We are currently being assessed based on our usage of "Fossil Fuels" - of which our usage of Fertiliser seems to be weighed against us heavily.

Is this correct ?

I buy based on the price of Nitrogen not how it has been manufactured. Whereas the government is punishing me based on how it was manufactured whilst at the same time activily promoting human waste being flushed into the sea.

To follow Government "Green" policy the government need to recycle human waste and food waste back to the farmer so I can buy it. I can't do that but government can IF they actually want to do recycling (Which I doubt VERY much).

 

[delilah]

Unsure what the question is, or who is asking it of you, but in any event, just say "There is nothing wrong my side of the farm gate". If they come back at you, just repeat "There is nothing wrong my side of the farm gate". Until they go away.
And if any of your national representative bodies don't back you up in that statement, sack them.

 

[deleted user 837354]

We are currently being assessed based on our usage of "Fossil Fuels" - of which our usage of Fertiliser seems to be weighed against us heavily.

Is this correct ?

I buy based on the price of Nitrogen not how it has been manufactured. Whereas the government is punishing me based on how it was manufactured whilst at the same time activily promoting human waste being flushed into the sea.

To follow Government "Green" policy the government need to recycle human waste and food waste back to the farmer so I can buy it. I can't do that but government can IF they actually want to do recycling (Which I doubt VERY much).

I had clients who were having to do a similar carbon audit thing for one of the dairies, it may have been Arla. I can't remember. Fertiliser and fuel was one of the bigger things on the list but I also added in chemicals and the like (which are all petrochemicals).

The one thing I was not sure on at the time was the nature of the fertiliser used, I.E is MOP better or worse than a tonne of AN? Your survey might be different.

For livestock producers, their emissions of NOx and the like may be included in time if it isn't already.

The bulk of sewage is returned to land I thought? Even so, this can't be done universally.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Unsure what the question is, or who is asking it of you, but in any event, just say "There is nothing wrong my side of the farm gate". If they come back at you, just repeat "There is nothing wrong my side of the farm gate". Until they go away.
And if any of your national representative bodies don't back you up in that statement, sack them.

Surely at some point someone will ask you to back up that statement with some facts and figures

 

[GeorgeK]

Unfortunately ammonium nitrate fertiliser takes vast amounts of energy to produce. It's basically highly concentrated chemical energy, as demonstrated recently at a Lebanese port

 

[DrWazzock]

Yet again we are between a rock and a hard place. Like the steelworks has no option but to use coal, we have no current feasible option but to use artificial fertilisers, so what’s the point of all these audits just to point out the obvious, slap a big fine or levy on us for what end purpose? We don’t have feasible alternatives to avoid punishment.
We can make tweaks and adjustments but by and large it as as it is, and it’s not too bad actually.
I just hope it goes away. Much more of this and I’ll stop. It won’t be worth getting out of bed. It’s hardly worth it as it is.

 

[GeorgeK]

The solution is most likely genetic modification to enable all crops to fix their own nitrogen like legumes can. But of course that's banned here

 

[uztrac]

We are currently being assessed based on our usage of "Fossil Fuels" - of which our usage of Fertiliser seems to be weighed against us heavily.

Is this correct ?

I buy based on the price of Nitrogen not how it has been manufactured. Whereas the government is punishing me based on how it was manufactured whilst at the same time activily promoting human waste being flushed into the sea.

To follow Government "Green" policy the government need to recycle human waste and food waste back to the farmer so I can buy it. I can't do that but government can IF they actually want to do recycling (Which I doubt VERY much).

Please advise who or whom is assessing your operation ? this would be a good starting point for comment and or assistance.

 

[DrWazzock]

Clover is a good natural source of N, but really needs livestock to make it work as we all know. But they don’t want livestock.
“They” never seem to satisfied and are never content but feel the need to stick their oar in to stuff they don’t really understand, especially at the practical level.

 

[delilah]

Surely at some point someone will ask you to back up that statement with some facts and figures

Surely that's where our national representative bodies come in ?
If I was bored enough I could write an absolutely water-tight essay/ book to back it up. All the evidence has been posted on here, never mind what we all instinctively know by applying a dollop of common sense. But why should I and every other individual producer have to do that ? It's what unions are there for.

Everyone from Avis car rental to Sky media are carbon neutral - it must be true because google (also carbon neutral) just told me that - yet here we are, apologizing and beating ourselves up. It's pathetic.

 

[DrWazzock]

The solution is most likely genetic modification to enable all crops to fix their own nitrogen like legumes can. But of course that's banned here

You are right, but even with crops fixing their own nitrogen they will moan about the amount that leaches away.

 

[DrWazzock]

What annoys me most is that we don’t just tell them to do one, but like RT we let them keep on taking the pee. Where is the farming union on this? If they said that nationally we aren’t doing these audits and everybody stuck by that then what could those actually requiring these audits do about it?

 

[betweenthelines]

Don't worry about it. A major airline (can't recall which one) recently announced they are "carbon neutral"

Still burning lots of fuel, but pay for tree planting to offset it.

Just say you're carbon neutral 'cos you grow grass and crops

 

[Tarw Coch]

Surely that's where our national representative bodies come in ?
If I was bored enough I could write an absolutely water-tight essay/ book to back it up. All the evidence has been posted on here, never mind what we all instinctively know by applying a dollop of common sense. But why should I and every other individual producer have to do that ? It's what unions are there for.

Everyone from Avis car rental to Sky media are carbon neutral - it must be true because google (also carbon neutral) just told me that - yet here we are, apologizing and beating ourselves up. It's pathetic.

Unfortunately representative bodies are far from doing that, there’s a thread on here about the NBA, national beef association going in the wrong direction and the NFU want carbon neutral by 2040, it seems they think we are a long way from that at the moment.
If the bodies that represent us think we are guilty as charged what hope is there?
How do we get them to change their mindset and the message they portray

 

[betweenthelines]

Don't worry about it. A major airline (can't recall which one) recently announced they are "carbon neutral"

Still burning lots of fuel, but pay for tree planting to offset it.

Just say you're carbon neutral 'cos you grow grass and crops

Writing this has got me thinking.

Is there any way that these "We pay for trees to be planted" claims are certified? Or is there some guy in South American or somewhere, taking money off these big businesses and just sending them all a picture of the same area of tree planting?

I'm reminded of last year's Election where all the Parties tried to outdo each other in terms of how much planting they would do if elected. It got to the stage where there was neither the trees or the land available to meet the hyped claims.

 

[delilah]

How do we get them to change their mindset and the message they portray

By doing our job as members: Making them accountable.
Couple of weeks ago there was a thread on here where the 'affiliate' members of the NFU were discussed. I suggested that all NFU members reading the thread - of which there would have been hundreds - do what I have done and email the NFU and ask the question "who are our affiliate members?". Want to know how many did so ? A big fat zero. My assumption.
Why is that relevant to this thread ? Because it is the affiliate members of the NFU who wish for farming to be tied up in ever more red tape, as it gets rid of producers and makes their supply chain easier to manage/control.
We get the representation we deserve.

 

[Hampton]

We are currently being assessed based on our usage of "Fossil Fuels" - of which our usage of Fertiliser seems to be weighed against us heavily.

Is this correct ?

I buy based on the price of Nitrogen not how it has been manufactured. Whereas the government is punishing me based on how it was manufactured whilst at the same time activily promoting human waste being flushed into the sea.

To follow Government "Green" policy the government need to recycle human waste and food waste back to the farmer so I can buy it. I can't do that but government can IF they actually want to do recycling (Which I doubt VERY much).

Yara etc should be making there own businesses carbon neutral, not keeping quiet and shifting the responsibility on to us!

 

[Hampton]

Writing this has got me thinking.

Is there any way that these "We pay for trees to be planted" claims are certified? Or is there some guy in South American or somewhere, taking money off these big businesses and just sending them all a picture of the same area of tree planting?

I'm reminded of last year's Election where all the Parties tried to outdo each other in terms of how much planting they would do if elected. It got to the stage where there was neither the trees or the land available to meet the hyped claims.

Also, when you book with an airline, they ask if you want to pay to make your flight carbon neutral. Surely they should already be making it carbon neutral so the customer doesn’t have to.

 

[Hampton]

https://www.yara.com/siteassets/sustainability/documents/yara-carbon-footprint-verification-statement.pdf/

Looking at this statement, it appears all yara are doing is telling everyone what co2/kg there products have, then that they are working with farmers to reduce the carbon footprint.
nothing about sorting there own emissions out!

 

[Lowland1]

I

I had clients who were having to do a similar carbon audit thing for one of the dairies, it may have been Arla. I can't remember. Fertiliser and fuel was one of the bigger things on the list but I also added in chemicals and the like (which are all petrochemicals).

The one thing I was not sure on at the time was the nature of the fertiliser used, I.E is MOP better or worse than a tonne of AN? Your survey might be different.

For livestock producers, their emissions of NOx and the like may be included in time if it isn't already.

The bulk of sewage is returned to land I thought? Even so, this can't be done universally.

I did one of these for tenderstem broccoli and we were brilliant minimum tillage, no fertilizer,minimal chemicals.Then we pack it in plastic and put it on an aeroplane. Still I will keep doing it until no one wants it anymore.