Direct drilling Maize into grass - any thoughts?

[rob the pom]

I have some customers who wish to try a Vaderstad Tempo to dd Maize straight into a short term westerwolds grass ley.
The drill should do it but what should they be aware of? Should they spray off the stubble after we have drilled it?
Will an application of lime after the field has been cut for Silage but prior to drilling help?
Any suggestions for starter fert? should the amount be increased?

I have suggested that the soil structure needs to be pretty reasonable if they want it to succeed.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.


(First post, been a lurker for some time......... now its time to put it into practice)

 

[Old Spot]

I'm no expert, DD planted maize last year into standing wheat (for pheasant cover) it was the best maize we grew not great because of season. The crop would probably benefit from a bit of early N because of dead grass. A lot more maize is DDed in the world than conventional till. As you say the soil structure needs to be good, we will be establishing all of our game maize this time by DD (disc drill). I will try to be better at taking pics this year.

 

[Baling Hay]

I have some customers who wish to try a Vaderstad Tempo to dd Maize straight into a short term westerwolds grass ley.
The drill should do it but what should they be aware of? Should they spray off the stubble after we have drilled it?
Will an application of lime after the field has been cut for Silage but prior to drilling help?
Any suggestions for starter fert? should the amount be increased?

I have suggested that the soil structure needs to be pretty reasonable if they want it to succeed.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.


(First post, been a lurker for some time......... now its time to put it into practice)

I was just about to post a thread similar to this but I will post my similar question here. I was daydreaming the other day and wondered if the following would work:

If a field of grass was cut for silage in mid may and immediately direct drilled with maize and grazed hard with sheep until the maize started to emerge and the sheep were then removed. The grass is not sprayed off but hopefully the maize would grow taller than the grass. The grass should help prevent much mess at harvest time and then there should be some grass available for deferred grazing the following winter before planting a spring crop. Is this a crazy idea? Would the grass just smother the maize?

 

[Andy Howard]

Try it then tell us the results!

 

[Will Blackburn]

Would the grass just smother the maize?

Yes

 

[Old Spot]

Yes, but spraying off at planting would give you a good crop and still allow good travelling at harvest. My only concern is that it would only realy work in short term grass, old leys much harder.

 

[rob1]

Yes, but spraying off at planting would give you a good crop and still allow good travelling at harvest. My only concern is that it would only realy work in short term grass, old leys much harder.

Why not band spraying to allow the maize to get away better?

 

[Elmsted]

Ever since I saw Keith and his sheep. Reckon leaving sheep on until the maize started to emerge not bad idea. The fixation with sub soiling afore planting maize ( In English ) still can not comprehend as where grain maize is seriously grown no one has a subsoiler.

As too grass same family as maize and wheat. Spray off with suitable maize grass weed product.

 

[Baling Hay]

Why not band spraying to allow the maize to get away better?

That might be a good idea!

 

[RAG]

That might be a good idea!

Are you still allowed to use Gramoxone in the UK? We've done it here, sprayed it on grass, direct drilled into it and providing the maize gets up and away it will always suppress the grass. Then when you cut the maize/sorghum and the light gets in the grass gets away again.

Maybe different here as we always have high temperatures to encourage growth, erratic rain is the problem.

On irrigated land we're now putting grass into maize once it's coming up to knee high,between the rows at the same time as we side dress 20-00-20 fertiliser. Then incorporate with inter-row cultivator and irrigate (centre pivot). Grass will emerge but not go crazy as maize shades it.

Then harvest maize,irrigate hard and cattle on. Planning 4 months maize, 8 months irrigated grass, then DD maize into grass again. Use a Semeato planter with a leading disc/fertiliser tine, then double disc planting unit behind that. Early days yet ,don't know how long the grass will last (Tanzania=panicum type grass). Trying to build fertility and OM with the cattle, plus have drought proof cattle system.

It's quite a well known system, called Sante Fe. Using GM seed, Roundup Ready and resistant to the dreaded caterpillars.

 

[Elmsted]

Are you still allowed to use Gramoxone in the UK? We've done it here, sprayed it on grass, direct drilled into it and providing the maize gets up and away it will always suppress the grass. Then when you cut the maize/sorghum and the light gets in the grass gets away again.

Maybe different here as we always have high temperatures to encourage growth, erratic rain is the problem.

On irrigated land we're now putting grass into maize once it's coming up to knee high,between the rows at the same time as we side dress 20-00-20 fertiliser. Then incorporate with inter-row cultivator and irrigate (centre pivot). Grass will emerge but not go crazy as maize shades it.

Then harvest maize,irrigate hard and cattle on. Planning 4 months maize, 8 months irrigated grass, then DD maize into grass again. Use a Semeato planter with a leading disc/fertiliser tine, then double disc planting unit behind that. Early days yet ,don't know how long the grass will last (Tanzania=panicum type grass). Trying to build fertility and OM with the cattle, plus have drought proof cattle system.

It's quite a well known system, called Sante Fe. Using GM seed, Roundup Ready and resistant to the dreaded caterpillars.

Why inter row cultivate kinda upsets the anchorage roots adventitious mode. But shore looks good as 15 to 25 KG of N goes skyborn and enters the leaves via holes on bottom of leaf. Good to hear you have double stack genetics, we did until like Gramoxone got banned.

On irrigation what is source of water and how much in MM per hectare in total please. Know in Saudi and France we lowered the aquifer levels over time.

Erratic rain seems to be a global thing these days.

 

[RAG]

Why inter row cultivate kinda upsets the anchorage roots adventitious mode. But shore looks good as 15 to 25 KG of N goes skyborn and enters the leaves via holes on bottom of leaf. Good to hear you have double stack genetics, we did until like Gramoxone got banned.

On irrigation what is source of water and how much in MM per hectare in total please. Know in Saudi and France we lowered the aquifer levels over time.

Erratic rain seems to be a global thing these days.

Elmsted,
cultivate for weed control/grass seed and fertiliser incorporation, then use roundup later if needed.

Planting in first 4 months of the year, theoretically our wettest but last few sadly not! Generally looking at 1500mm/ha if dry, but when it rains it rains, best we've done is 110mm in 2 hours. Using DD and permanent soil cover to reduce moisture loss. All irrigation done at night, less evaporation/wind and electric rate 5% of day rate.

Have abstraction license from river, we have a barrage(licensed) that holds the water back for 15kms and we then use that all year. Unfortunately, after 3 years of drought (50,20, and 50% of mean) then river totally dry, so have drilled boreholes, again licensed.

Work ongoing to replenish our river from another 50km away, which is a km wide. Without intervention the river will not run again as it has dried out so much, but the government is banging money into the rural economy here for drought relief/ alleviation measures. Hopefully the droughts are cyclical, apparently they run on 12/15 year cycles but we'll see.

 

[Elmsted]

Thank you rag for taking time to reply in maybe not as me our normal working day language.

 

[RAG]

Thank you rag for taking time to reply in maybe not as me our normal working day language.

No problem, what amount of water did you have to put on a maize crop in Saudi?

 

[Elmsted]

Pretty much depended on soil moisture curves versus evapo transpiration as measured at a number of remote locations. But basically came down to 50 mm per tour of centre pivot to also match with producing Lucerne for cows. So that one pivot was harvesting the next was scheduled for next week. Another was in re-growth. Or in case of wheat to ensure there was no wilting of plants due to temps. Then plumb in plant food to water. Irrigation seems to me after some time with it to be like this. You pay for getting the water on and best thing is to sell it off. For example potatoes, salad crops, onions, carrots etc where basically one is selling water at over 60% of the nett weight.

Sorry just noticed I did not answer query on maize in Saudi.

On maize and irrigation surely it is a balance in my experience of cost of water over FAO number and hence drying cost to get water back out of Maize.

 

[RAG]

Pretty much depended on soil moisture curves versus evapo transpiration as measured at a number of remote locations. But basically came down to 50 mm per tour of centre pivot to also match with producing Lucerne for cows. So that one pivot was harvesting the next was scheduled for next week. Another was in re-growth. Or in case of wheat to ensure there was no wilting of plants due to temps. Then plumb in plant food to water. Irrigation seems to me after some time with it to be like this. You pay for getting the water on and best thing is to sell it off. For example potatoes, salad crops, onions, carrots etc where basically one is selling water at over 60% of the nett weight.

Sorry just noticed I did not answer query on maize in Saudi.

On maize and irrigation surely it is a balance in my experience of cost of water over FAO number and hence drying cost to get water back out of Maize.

Please excuse my ignorance here, but what is a FAO number?
We don't pay for water here, just the application cost, and harvest is timed for the start of the dry season, when we know it won't rain for 5-6 months.

 

[Elmsted]

Please excuse my ignorance here, but what is a FAO number?
We don't pay for water here, just the application cost, and harvest is timed for the start of the dry season, when we know it won't rain for 5-6 months.

FAO is a way of enumerating indicating the maturity date from planting to harvest.

This says it better than me but assumed as all maize growers for decades that all understood.http://www.fao.org/nr/water/cropinfo_maize.html

 

[jackrussell101]

Has anyone tried this recently?

 

[Devon James]

Has anyone tried this recently?

Striptilled into a grass ley taken for silage. Glyphosate timing needs improving next time. Ie. After planting to give a few more days for the leaf to green up.

 

[Devon James]

Crop was sown beginning of May and this was middle of June with a dose of liquid fert after a very wet May. Crop went on to do well.