DNA testing

[Cowgirl]

So, as some of you will know, I have a bit of an interest in DNA testing in pedigree livestock. I wanted to ask people on here who do this a few questions which have occurred to me recently.
1 If you take samples at the request of your breed society, do you send the samples direct to a laboratory of your choosing (and at a price you choose) for DNA extraction and interpretation, or do you send the sample to the breed society for onward posting to the laboratory and do they specify which one? (There are quite a few in UK, charging different rates.)
2 Do you pay the laboratory direct, or pay the breed society, who then pay the laboratory?
3 Have you ever considered, and does it concern you, who owns the DNA profile of your animal? Is it you, the laboratory or the breed society? If it is not you, does it concern you what might be done with the resulting profile?

 

[Bluesman]

I have just sent some samples off on some of my rams. I have chosen the lab and what is being tested because I want complete control and so that I own the results.

 

[Cowgirl]

I have just sent some samples off on some of my rams. I have chosen the lab and what is being tested because I want complete control and so that I own the results.

That’s interesting- thank you. What breed do you have?

 

[Bluesman]

Lleyns

 

[Bill the Bass]

Samples go to the society, we are billed by the society, at this stage I am not bothered, although I assumed Perhaps naively that I would own the DNA profile as I own the animal and hence its DNA.

 

[Cowgirl]

Samples go to the society, we are billed by the society, at this stage I am not bothered, although I assumed Perhaps naively that I would own the DNA profile as I own the animal and hence its DNA.

Not necessarily. Perhaps you should ask the question?

 

[Bill the Bass]

Not necessarily. Perhaps you should ask the question?

Have you?

 

[Cowgirl]

Have you?

A fellow breeder member of our society has.

 

[Whitepeak]

DNA samples for parentage verification are sent to the society, who forward to the laboratory and invoice the member. Think we are currently using Wetherbys in Ireland for this.

 

[Gulli]

Not necessarily. Perhaps you should ask the question?

I was under the impression we did?
But either way does it make much difference?

 

[Cowgirl]

DNA samples for parentage verification are sent to the society, who forward to the laboratory and invoice the member. Think we are currently using Wetherbys in Ireland for this.

So you pay the laboratory directly? Do you know what will happen now we are no longer in Europe? Do you have the option of using another lab? Do you own your animal’s DNA and does it bother you if they say you don’t?
Reading your reply again, I think you are saying the society invoices you? That means that the society is Weatherby’s client, not you, therefore Weatherby’s cannot release the profile (say for an exported animal) without the society’s permission because you are not their client. (I think).

 

[Cowgirl]

I was under the impression we did?
But either way does it make much difference?

I don’t know but I would like to know. Apparently it is a thorny question legally. I guess it depends what others might want to do with it.

 

[Whitepeak]

So you pay the laboratory directly? Do you know what will happen now we are no longer in Europe? Do you have the option of using another lab? Do you own your animal’s DNA and does it bother you if they say you don’t?

We pay the breed society. No idea tbh, I'll check. No, we send hair samples to the breed secretary who then sends them on. That way they are all analysed on the same base I guess. I have heard of other members using different labs for other genetic tests eg polled, however.
Not sure how much genetic data is held as its a simpler parentage verification, not a full genomic analysis, so not sure if that effects who 'owns' the DNA. One would assume if you own the animal, you own its DNA? Guessing not if you are asking the question? If the breed society owns it, that would cause all sorts of issues in a jaegerbomb type situation.

 

[Cowgirl]

We pay the breed society. No idea tbh, I'll check. No, we send hair samples to the breed secretary who then sends them on. That way they are all analysed on the same base I guess. I have heard of other members using different labs for other genetic tests eg polled, however.
Not sure how much genetic data is held as its a simpler parentage verification, not a full genomic analysis, so not sure if that effects who 'owns' the DNA. One would assume if you own the animal, you own its DNA? Guessing not if you are asking the question? If the breed society owns it, that would cause all sorts of issues in a jaegerbomb type situation.

Well exactly- that’s why I’m asking the question...

 

[Treg]

Send DNA to the society who send on to be tested, the results are made public , so not sure it matters who owns the data?
As @Whitepeak says whoever owns the animal owns the DNA surely?
But saying that the society checks parentage with that DNA in the future so they must part own it as well? So perhaps by sending through the society you are agreeing for them to be part owners as you are part of a society as well?
Can you explain more why you are asking @Cowgirl ?

 

[Cowgirl]

Send DNA to the society who send on to be tested, the results are made public , so not sure it matters who owns the data?
As @Whitepeak says whoever owns the animal owns the DNA surely?
But saying that the society checks parentage with that DNA in the future so they must part own it as well? So perhaps by sending through the society you are agreeing for them to be part owners as you are part of a society as well?
Can you explain more why you are asking @Cowgirl ?

I suppose I was hoping to find out whether all breeds had the same procedures or whether there were differences between breeds. It would seem from the replies that most people don’t care if another body owns the DNA of their animals. Personally I’m naturally suspicious of what might be done in the future with DNA profiles and if people are not aware or don’t care that they are giving this data away I find that surprising. That’s all.

 

[egbert]

Belted Galloway soc ...samples sent to society, member pays society.
It's not done for any 'profit'.
Needs to be done in a lab with Soc dna database, if it's being used for sire/dam verification.

Ownership....good question.
I don't see it makes a whole lot of difference, but would expect any Soc to 'own' the sample they hold...otherwise there's room for problems in a subsequent dispute.
However....I don't know much about cloning, but don't you use an 'empty' egg from a donor, and place a bit of dna therein from the critter you're cloning?
What happens when someone tries to hatch their own (insert champion bulls name here)
It seems outlandish, but it already happens with dogs doesn't it? For a few tens of thousands.
Hmm

 

[neilo]

I suppose I was hoping to find out whether all breeds had the same procedures or whether there were differences between breeds. It would seem from the replies that most people don’t care if another body owns the DNA of their animals. Personally I’m naturally suspicious of what might be done in the future with DNA profiles and if people are not aware or don’t care that they are giving this data away I find that surprising. That’s all.

Is the idea not that the breed society build a DNA database of the breed, to allow potential for tracking future problems, both genetic and parentage?

We send scrapie genotype samples through our sheep breed society, and teh Beltex Society is building a database through all service rams having to be DNA sampled, I understand the Texel Society are doing similar.
I also send samples to NZ for genetic tests, outwith the breed society.

I can't say I've given any consideration to anyone else having access to the DNA profile, as I still own the animal's genetics, if I so wish of course.

What are you concerned 'they' might do with your animal's DNA profile?

 

[organicguy]

I have had DNA samples taken by AI companies of heifer calves, they are looking for superior genetics to breed future bulls. I have one in the ether at present which I have not had results for. I will be making a call after lunch!

 

[Cowgirl]

Is the idea not that the breed society build a DNA database of the breed, to allow potential for tracking future problems, both genetic and parentage?

We send scrapie genotype samples through our sheep breed society, and teh Beltex Society is building a database through all service rams having to be DNA sampled, I understand the Texel Society are doing similar.
I also send samples to NZ for genetic tests, outwith the breed society.

I can't say I've given any consideration to anyone else having access to the DNA profile, as I still own the animal's genetics, if I so wish of course.

What are you concerned 'they' might do with your animal's DNA profile?

“Building a database of the breed” sounds very laudable, and genomic EBVs are undoubtedly going to be important in the future. However DNA profiles are much more than just parentage verification and defects nowadays and are being linked to particular genetic commercial traits. Societies are likely to share this data with societies in other countries and then, maybe even without knowing, with commercial companies who stand to make a lot of money from animal breeding, as has happened in the pig and poultry industries. If the owner of the animal has no say in what happens to the profiles it is a short step to being told that your animals do not “fit” the desired breed profile and therefore cannot be registered or bred from. Am I just paranoid? Probably, but there is a lot of concern in humans over what genetic data might be used for.