Do we need a combine?

[martian]

Reading posts about straw chopping/dealing with a mat of straw and, also, watching David Purdey and his team setting up a compaction demonstration for Groundswell, got me thinking that combines are increasingly designed for the benefit of machinery makers rather than farmers. Quarter of a million quid for something that you use a few weeks a year? Bonkers.

So, instead, if you've got a stripper header, why do you need all that thrashing, sieving and winnowing kit trundling along with it? Why not attach the stripper to a big hopper/unloading auger and offload the mush to the grain carts and clean it up at your leisure. You'd harvest a lot of weed seeds and not return them to the land. Ideally you'd have an outdoor chicken system which would add value to the chaff/screenings. You could have a decent cleaning operation at the grain-store which would last the lifetimes of several combines. Harvest would be over in a flash. You'd be much more relaxed about weeds in the crop (what we call companion crops nowadays). You'd have no more combine compaction. You'd be a lot better off.

Where's the catch?

 

[Bury the Trash]

My combine is only little.

 

[Al R]

The tribine works on this principle i think, there’s been a few over the years that basically capture everything and then you have a very good grain separator at the store.

 

[Sharpy]

This has been done in North America. Possibly in @farmideas ??

 

[martian]

The tribine works on this principle i think, there’s been a few over the years that basically capture everything and then you have a very good grain separator at the store.

It's still a very expensive bit of kit though

 

[Dead Rabbits]

There was just a thread on this, can’t remember the name. That Canadian system was the most refined.

I think the logistics of handling the bulk kills the efficiency but surely there are niches where it is feasible.

Short term it’s likely just too weird. There wouldn’t be any manufacturer with widely available parts etc.

 

[T Hectares]

@martian, this is the McLeod system link http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~carlberg/MCLEODWHOLE.ppt

The Tribine is an articulated Combine with a massive grain tank, it still threshes and cleans the same as a rotary combine.

The biggest problem with the McLeod is hauling and storing the bulky “graff” and processing/drying it in a timely fashion in a wet year, sound idea but still a considerable set up investment, but maybe it would las5 for longer than a Conventional Combine ??

 

[martian]

@martian, this is the McLeod system link http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~carlberg/MCLEODWHOLE.ppt

The Tribine is an articulated Combine with a massive grain tank, it still threshes and cleans the same as a rotary combine.

The biggest problem with the McLeod is hauling and storing the bulky “graff” and processing/drying it in a timely fashion in a wet year, sound idea but still a considerable set up investment, but maybe it would las5 for longer than a Conventional Combine ??

Thanks for that. As you say, an expensive system, but interesting ideas there. It looks like they have a conventional header so they are cutting much more than needed. A stripper attached to a swather with a hopper on the back would do the job you'd think. It opens up the options in a wet year as you're not putting all that wet straw through the machine so could grab a few loads and process them while your neighbours are sitting on their hands.

 

[T Hectares]

Thanks for that. As you say, an expensive system, but interesting ideas there. It looks like they have a conventional header so they are cutting much more than needed. A stripper attached to a swather with a hopper on the back would do the job you'd think. It opens up the options in a wet year as you're not putting all that wet straw through the machine so could grab a few loads and process them while your neighbours are sitting on their hands.

Yep, definitely an interesting idea, it would be great to know how many systems are operating and how successful they have been...
* edit* I'm sure Silsoe were developing a tractor pulled stripper header combine in the late '80's or early '90's ???

 

[Simon Chiles]

Reading posts about straw chopping/dealing with a mat of straw and, also, watching David Purdey and his team setting up a compaction demonstration for Groundswell, got me thinking that combines are increasingly designed for the benefit of machinery makers rather than farmers. Quarter of a million quid for something that you use a few weeks a year? Bonkers.

So, instead, if you've got a stripper header, why do you need all that thrashing, sieving and winnowing kit trundling along with it? Why not attach the stripper to a big hopper/unloading auger and offload the mush to the grain carts and clean it up at your leisure. You'd harvest a lot of weed seeds and not return them to the land. Ideally you'd have an outdoor chicken system which would add value to the chaff/screenings. You could have a decent cleaning operation at the grain-store which would last the lifetimes of several combines. Harvest would be over in a flash. You'd be much more relaxed about weeds in the crop (what we call companion crops nowadays). You'd have no more combine compaction. You'd be a lot better off.

Where's the catch?

Get a smaller combine and stick it on bigger tyres. The tyres I’ve got on my combine run at half the pressure of the tyres you have on yours at the same axle load. When you then take into account that mine is 5 walker and yours is 6 that must be quite a reduction in ground pressure. I’ve been convinced for years that people have bought bigger capacity combines to get through harvest quicker only to spend the next six weeks trying to rectify the soil structure damage they’ve caused and, as you don’t subscribe to this, I think you can subsequently afford to spend more time harvesting. If you then add up the costings for all the time you’d spend trying to rethrash, clean and dry the grain afterwards ( don’t forget that the sample will be much wetter with all those weed seeds in it ) you might find the cost of the harvester was cheaper than you imagine.

 

[martian]

Get a smaller combine and stick it on bigger tyres. The tyres I’ve got on my combine run at half the pressure of the tyres you have on yours at the same axle load. When you then take into account that mine is 5 walker and yours is 6 that must be quite a reduction in ground pressure. I’ve been convinced for years that people have bought bigger capacity combines to get through harvest quicker only to spend the next six weeks trying to rectify the soil structure damage they’ve caused and, as you don’t subscribe to this, I think you can subsequently afford to spend more time harvesting. If you then add up the costings for all the time you’d spend trying to rethrash, clean and dry the grain afterwards ( don’t forget that the sample will be much wetter with all those weed seeds in it ) you might find the cost of the harvester was cheaper than you imagine.

We can barely get through the village with the tyres we've got on it now. You're right though, we could easily get by with a smaller combine...that's where all this thinking started: could we have a smaller combine and a stripper, as well as a conventional, header for the same or less cost. From there it's a small step to: what does a combine actually do if you are stripping the ears off the crop and so on...

 

[teslacoils]

With linseed, Canary seed we essentially cut the boils and a bit of stalk off, thresh it a bit but sieve almost nothing out. Then cart the lot back and shove on a wooden floor, then thresh it properly back through the combine later. I've often thought it must be possible to do similar by almost cutting cereals with a forager and having a static (!) Combine in the shed. Still means keeping a big pile of caff etc cool, dry etc.

 

[Simon Chiles]

We can barely get through the village with the tyres we've got on it now. You're right though, we could easily get by with a smaller combine...that's where all this thinking started: could we have a smaller combine and a stripper, as well as a conventional, header for the same or less cost. From there it's a small step to: what does a combine actually do if you are stripping the ears off the crop and so on...

When I said bigger tyres I meant in height not width, for example you could replace your 800/65r 32’s with 800/75r 32’s. It doesn’t sound much but it halves ground pressure. If you had a smaller combine that would help with your transport issues as well. The new T560 wouldn’t be far behind in output to your T670.

 

[Clive]

Had similar thoughts in a recent thread

Front linkage mounted stripper header then heads conveyed back to trailers towed behind

Static thrashing drum back at yard

Logistics could be a challenge though I think

 

[Sharpy]

How much bulkier are the stripped heads than clean grain over a given area? Half again? As for the static thresher it would always be level with a continuous supply of material so optimum operating conditions, could be ran on electricity so lower energy costs, and the operator could be running the store as well?

 

[JumboUk]

and you could tow/mount a DD drill on the back of the trailer

 

[Suffolk Serf]

I remember a series of articles in Power Farming (remember that?) in the late 70's or early 80's describing a Scandiavian company that whole crop harvested (no stripper header) then took the whole crop back to a stationary combine in a building that threshed, cleaned etc.
I think they used hook lift containers, and with the straw there was a lot of bulk to be shifted.
I think that the name of the form was Kokkums?- I lapped up information about farming at that age, when I should have been remembering all that stuff I was being taught at school.

 

[martian]

I remember a series of articles in Power Farming (remember that?) in the late 70's or early 80's describing a Scandiavian company that whole crop harvested (no stripper header) then took the whole crop back to a stationary combine in a building that threshed, cleaned etc.
I think they used hook lift containers, and with the straw there was a lot of bulk to be shifted.
I think that the name of the form was Kokkums?- I lapped up information about farming at that age, when I should have been remembering all that stuff I was being taught at school.

Power Farming...whatever happened? I remember an Agricultural Mechanics lecturer at Uni about that time telling us that we should think about what we were trying to achieve with machinery, like the combine picking up the whole crop, separating the grain from the straw, putting the straw down then another machine (baler) would come along and pick it up again, compress it into bales and put it back on the ground, another machine would come along and pick it up etc etc. He'd obviously been reading Power Farming....

It's all very well if you want to harvest all your straw, but we'd rather leave it to protect and feed the soil. And, ideally, leave it attached the ground to make direct drilling the next crop or cover crop a lot easier. I'm also conscious that we should be looking for ways to farm with minimal fuel costs

 

[martian]

How much bulkier are the stripped heads than clean grain over a given area? Half again? As for the static thresher it would always be level with a continuous supply of material so optimum operating conditions, could be ran on electricity so lower energy costs, and the operator could be running the store as well?

I don't know the answer to the first two questions, but you get to the nub of the idea with the third!

 

[homefarm]

It's not really a new idea is it. Just going back to how it was done for hundreds if not thousands of years.

I am sure it will happen with robots, they will pick ears or pods to be processed in a factory.