EPC

[Rod Dumbreck]

I don't believe so, we have a client with a GII listed building with poor EPC that is on the market with a letting agent.

Im hoping our current tenant will stay a good while, but the cottage in question is going to look very poor in any assessment and is long overdue for an upgrade.

At the top of the thread, it seems that the property was fuelled by biomass, which I would have thought was both carbon friendly and economic, how come its marked down?

 

[theboytheboy]

I removed the wall socket dry lining back boxes so the internal wall insulation could be seen and photographed as proof.

I made a hole in the plasterboard to show the roof was insulated. The first guy who came said that didn't mean anything as I could have just insulated that part of the roof!

 

[jellybean]

We recently had our EPC renewed as we will be putting the farm on the market in the next few months. Originally we were a C rating but now we are a D. Nothing has change except their goal posts, there is an ulterior motive in this.
Personally I think that alongside the EPC rating there should be a statement of what the household bills really are i.e oil and electricity bills etc.
Our house is a barn conversion of about 3400 sq ft, we use about 1800 litres of heating oil per year and until the recent price rises the income from our 4kw solar panels more than covered the electricity bill and that includes the farm workshop.
We do have a good woodturner whose fuel only costs me time and labour and it is an "upside down" house so any heat generated by appliances etc rises to the main living quarters leaving us with cool bedrooms downstairs which we like, the radiators here never been on in the bedrooms since the build 33 years ago.
Most people need lessons in resource management; a pullover and fleece are much more cost effective than another tank of oil.

 

[SRRC]

There are still those who suggest property as a sound investment. Maybe it can be, but I hope they read threads like this to help understand the possible pitfalls.

 

[GmB]

Cut this out of FW

 

[Lincsman]

There are still those who suggest property as a sound investment. Maybe it can be, but I hope they read threads like this to help understand the possible pitfalls.

Depends what you buy, mine are all less than 20 years old and are currently rated as c or d. Also as being relatively new have increased the most in value in the last 2 years.. it's only paper profit but is showing 20% up.

 

[Raumer]

EPC to me is fundamentally flawed. It goes by what features are in place rather than how efficient it is. Each of the last three rental properties we have been in have had very similar EPC ratings. All had double glazed windows, cavity wall insulation etc.... But the middle one was a lot newer with everything fitted a lot better and therefore had much lower running costs.

The current place has double glazed windows fitted but you can feel the draughts round the outside of them. But the EPC calculator says double glazed windows fitted therefore the score is X. I would much rather see the EPC value being based on how much per sq ft does it cost to heat. Either in money or kWh. That is what produces the emissions and is what we are supposed to be trying to reduce!

 

[Steevo]

I think the tricky thing about basing it upon bills is that depends who the last occupier was.

An elderly lady in a large 5-bed draughty house who can’t afford to heat the place properly would use say £1000, but a wealthy family in a 3-bed new build might crank the heating right up and have the windows open and use £3000.

 

[Raumer]

I think the tricky thing about basing it upon bills is that depends who the last occupier was.

An elderly lady in a large 5-bed draughty house who can’t afford to heat the place properly would use say £1000, but a wealthy family in a 3-bed new build might crank the heating right up and have the windows open and use £3000.

True, it would have to be something like the energy needed to keep the whole property at 20 degrees for 1 hour. Probably not the most practical way of doing it but would at least be fair.

 

[GmB]

I think the tricky thing about basing it upon bills is that depends who the last occupier was.

An elderly lady in a large 5-bed draughty house who can’t afford to heat the place properly would use say £1000, but a wealthy family in a 3-bed new build might crank the heating right up and have the windows open and use £3000.

.... and only be wearing shorts and T-shirt, I know the type.

 

[Two Tone]

I am told it is 2025 when EPC rules will make it difficult to rent out property below a ‘D’.
Yes there are a lot of listed properties that will be difficult to comply.

However there are things that can be done to improve the situation.
Modern night storage heaters running on Econgomy 7 are miles better than they used to be.
Get rid of any emersion hot water system tanks and fit the new instant hot water systems, as close as possible to where any hot water taps are.
It double or secondly glazing isn’t possible, fit thermal film to the windows. This is very cheap and could be renewed each year if necessary. It will stop indoor condensation and raise the inside temperature by 2 degrees.
Change all the light bulbs to LED bulbs.

 

[Lincsman]

Get rid of any emersion hot water system tanks and fit the new instant hot water systems, as close as possible to where any hot water taps are.

Bigger new houses have to have tanks, if you have 3 bathrooms, with one shower running and filling a bath at the same time the boiler required would have to be massive, so not efficient, immersions are a good backup plane for the solar panels to feed excess power in, and for the day the boiler fuel supply fails.

 

[Two Tone]

Bigger new houses have to have tanks, if you have 3 bathrooms, with one shower running and filling a bath at the same time the boiler required would have to be massive, so not efficient, immersions are a good backup plane for the solar panels to feed excess power in, and for the day the boiler fuel supply fails.

Sorry, I’m referring more to smaller (rental) properties, without a bath (shower only) and just Electricity, without gas.

If you do need a hot water tank, go for an unvented one that doesn’t need a separate attic type cold water tank and will therefore run at mains pressure.
These are good if you can fuel them by an oil or gas type boiler that would probably do the central heating too. They also can come with an electric emersion element if you forget to order more oil or forgot to pay the gas bill!

 

[Steevo]

I am told it is 2025 when EPC rules will make it difficult to rent out property below a ‘D’.
Yes there are a lot of listed properties that will be difficult to comply.

However there are things that can be done to improve the situation.
Modern night storage heaters running on Econgomy 7 are miles better than they used to be.
Get rid of any emersion hot water system tanks and fit the new instant hot water systems, as close as possible to where any hot water taps are.
It double or secondly glazing isn’t possible, fit thermal film to the windows. This is very cheap and could be renewed each year if necessary. It will stop indoor condensation and raise the inside temperature by 2 degrees.
Change all the light bulbs to LED bulbs.

Correct, it is 2025. I wouldn't be surprised if it was pushed back though.

I believe there will also be a cap of £10k or so that if you've spent that as an upgrade you won't need to spent any more.

 

[Two Tone]

Correct, it is 2025. I wouldn't be surprised if it was pushed back though.

I believe there will also be a cap of £10k or so that if you've spent that as an upgrade you won't need to spent any more.

As it happens, I’m just going through this entire procedure on a Flat in Cheltenham. Quite interesting stuff and can pretty much all be done DIY.
Lots of letting agents cannot see how a lot of the Listed property they manage can comply in Cheltenham. I’m sure it is the same in many other towns and cities.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

Why can't you let out a house without an EPC rating? Housing in short supply in many places and fudge all to rent anywhere around here. Local people working in the area be glad to have a place to live, EPC or no EPC.

It’s the law now, isn’t it ???

 

[Lincsman]

As it happens, I’m just going through this entire procedure on a Flat in Cheltenham. Quite interesting stuff and can pretty much all be done DIY.
Lots of letting agents cannot see how a lot of the Listed property they manage can comply in Cheltenham. I’m sure it is the same in many other towns and cities.

The tenants will all be chucked out with the backing of the law, but at that point it will backtrack

 

[Lincsman]

Sorry, I’m referring more to smaller (rental) properties, without a bath (shower only) and just Electricity, without gas.

If you do need a hot water tank, go for an unvented one that doesn’t need a separate attic type cold water tank and will therefore run at mains pressure.
These are good if you can fuel them by an oil or gas type boiler that would probably do the central heating too. They also can come with an electric emersion element if you forget to order more oil or forgot to pay the gas bill!

Some of my smaller ones are simply on the combi boiler, all pushed by mains pressure, if a tank was needed I am not sure the unvented system is such a good thing, there are lots of things in the system with pressure vessels etc and an airing cupboard looking like NASA plumbed it, and wont work in a power cut.

 

[stroller]

Another irritation is that unless the inspector can see the item he's evaluating, eg the insulation, he can't include it in the final tot up.
For example, underfloor insulation, even if it's in the original construction drawings that's not adequate. They will only accept if the local building inspector has ticked it off during construction, and how likely is that these days?
Even worse, I have one where we had insulated internally with insulated plaster board, the inspector (even on appeal) wouldn't include it as he said he can't see it. Yes you can, I said, it's right there in front of you! He wasn't having it.

I told him to pick a spot and I drilled a hole in my insulated plasterboard in front of him when I had a similar jobsworth, I also got the cheapest thermost I could find and bluetacked it to the wall as he wanted 'to see a room thermostat' instead of rad thermostats.

 

[yellow belly]

The rules on improvements to listed building will have to change to allow double /triple glazing and better insulation that does not detract from the property
if climate change is that important the rules have to be changed
there are a lot of listed properties that will become unused because of the maintenance costs
pubs ect