Establishing clover seed

[Bob the farmer]

Hi does anyone have any tips on establishing clover seed into tired permanent pastures, ie what time of year , methods, varieties etc. The fields are cut for hay ,haylage June,July and grazed by sheep for 3 months from September. Thanks

 

[Old McDonald]

Not really tried oversowing, but on range in Australia I mixed clover seed in with a mineral lick and had good success. A lot of the seed passed through (mainly cattle) and germinated in the droppings. It established quite well before the droppings broke down enough that the stock would eat the clover.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

If the pasture is worn out go for s full re,seed . You will double the production

 

[primmiemoo]

Generally, once a crop of hay or last crop of silage has been taken, let stock eat the aftermath down - sheep are best at it - take them off and give the field a good old scratching with grass harrows or spring tine harrow before sowing the seed.
Put the sheep back in to trample the seed in, or give a very light roll, and it should germinate.

Alternatively, give fields a good scratch after cropping, and as @Oldmacdonald suggests, mix seed with ad lib mins. Let the stock eat the aftermath tight. You probably won't need to roll.

Best to do it in the run up to warm, moist weather. September best here, for instance, after traditional Devon late summer monsoon weather . There's the option for Spring if that's more suited to where you are, when there's close-grazed sward.

Try to manage grazing so as not to over or under graze. It's tempting to over graze an oversown field in winter when leaving the gate closed, and opening a few bales in fields you'll be oversowing in spring would be a better option; or to leave a field for silaging when it needs grazing to stop the dominant grasses swamping your clover, iyswim.

Think varieties are now tailored to areas, so can't say there, sorry.

 

[deleted user 837354]

What are you trying to achieve? White or red, is it for cutting or grazing.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

These fields would not keep a rabbit alive last year . Still a bit to do but getting there . 2 ton of lime 4 ton of chicken muck disc and reseed

 

[primmiemoo]

PS, Don't forget to feed your clover.

 

[davidroberts30]

Not really tried oversowing, but on range in Australia I mixed clover seed in with a mineral lick and had good success. A lot of the seed passed through (mainly cattle) and germinated in the droppings. It established quite well before the droppings broke down enough that the stock would eat the clover.

I'm trying the tooth and hoof approach here now

Feeding the cattle here a bag of barley a day to keep them friendly and putting about 150grams of white clover seed in with the barley
Been doing it about 2 weeks now so too early to say if its growing in the dung but I got 1 bunch on off lying ground that I'm feeding on the floor and the clover is growing where I tip the feed

 

[neilo]

I'm trying the tooth and hoof approach here now

Feeding the cattle here a bag of barley a day to keep them friendly and putting about 150grams of white clover seed in with the barley
Been doing it about 2 weeks now so too early to say if its growing in the dung but I got 1 bunch on off lying ground that I'm feeding on the floor and the clover is growing where I tip the feed

Ime it can work with cattle, but not with sheep.

 

[chaos]

I'm trying the tooth and hoof approach here now

Feeding the cattle here a bag of barley a day to keep them friendly and putting about 150grams of white clover seed in with the barley
Been doing it about 2 weeks now so too early to say if its growing in the dung but I got 1 bunch on off lying ground that I'm feeding on the floor and the clover is growing where I tip the feed

i
Had a new ley that I sprayed out the docks,that took out the clover,brought 20 kg of red and white clover
Plus some herbs. trough feed 200 hogs for a couple weeks last September, not one plant grew
not even where I tipped the troughs out and moved them every day.
What did I do wrong!

 

[davidroberts30]

i
Had a new ley that I sprayed out the docks,that took out the clover,brought 20 kg of red and white clover
Plus some herbs. trough feed 200 hogs for a couple weeks last September, not one plant grew
not even where I tipped the troughs out and moved them every day.
What did I do wrong!

Dunno see above
I have been lucky with the weather too mind

 

[neilo]

i
Had a new ley that I sprayed out the docks,that took out the clover,brought 20 kg of red and white clover
Plus some herbs. trough feed 200 hogs for a couple weeks last September, not one plant grew
not even where I tipped the troughs out and moved them every day.
What did I do wrong!

It just doesn’t work with sheep ime. I reckon it’s probably because the poo pellets are too dry (compared to cattle), so the seed germinates then dries out and dies. When i’ve Tried it, the only seed that grew was around the buckets that I fed it in, where it had either been pushed out, or been spilt. Can work (sort of) with cattle, but hardly reliable.

I’ve had success spinning it onto silage stubble with a slug Pelleter, then running a mob of sheep over it to tread it in, ahead of a thundery week. I did mix some in potash fertiliser I applied after clearing haylage, and before last week’s heavy rain. Very much a long shot though imo.

I slotted some aggressive grass (& clover) into a couple of fields that I held dry ewes on with hay in last summer’s drought, as soon as they were off it last Autumn. DD’ed with a Simtech, there’s a fair bit of the grass and clover evident there now, awaiting mowing for hay.

 

[Old McDonald]

Ime it can work with cattle, but not with sheep.

I would not argue with that. As I posted, it was mainly cattle in the paddock that I tried it, and the sheep probably could not reach into the trough I had the minerals in.

 

[multi power]

In my fairly limited experience of this it's one thing to get the seeds to germinate but entirety another matter to get them actually well established
The last lot I seen scratched and overseeded the new plants struggled with the amount of existing grass


The key is to graze it down just as the new plants are emerging, but obviously don't graze down enough to damage the seedlings

 

[Derrick Hughes]

In my fairly limited experience of this it's one thing to get the seeds to germinate but entirety another matter to get them actually well established
The last lot I seen scratched and overseeded the new plants struggled with the amount of existing grass


The key is to graze it down just as the new plants are emerging, but obviously don't graze down enough to damage the seedlings

Spot on

 

[spin cycle]

i
Had a new ley that I sprayed out the docks,that took out the clover,brought 20 kg of red and white clover
Plus some herbs. trough feed 200 hogs for a couple weeks last September, not one plant grew
not even where I tipped the troughs out and moved them every day.
What did I do wrong!

persistence of the dock spray i reckon....label will probably say 'do not sow clover within X months' etc

 

[Av Gorritt]

A man I knew in Derbyshire had a contract to remove ashes from a paper mill boiler house to their tip . One time , the tip went on fire and couldn't be used , so he took the fine ashes and spread them on his ground , with some trepidation I think . He absolutely assured me that the ground that had had the ash grew an abundance of red clover , which established itself very well . I have no way of checking this , and I have not a clue as to why this happened , but he assured me this was true . I've tried with no success at all to stitch clover into existing swards , nor have we had success with including clover in reseed mixtures .

 

[Bury the Trash]

this was a tired 5 yr old ley which was grazed/hammered to within an inch of its life in August with weaned ewes , then powered harrowed just to skin the turf and loosen the top/ germinate any weed after about 3wks / a shower or 2, then sprayed off any regrowth and power harrowed again.
Broadcast on the seed, used plenty of clover and not too aggressive grass types no seedbed fert and ph of about 6 ( cant get in there to spread lime
then just rolled once each way with Cambridge rollers to finish.
As said in an above post don't forget to feed it . this had a bit of compound in April. a bit of N is actually helpful, especially early on to help it establish and early in the season as well.
Doesn't like being set stocked , doesn't like being dominated by some types of grass ..and in that situation N will actually add to the problem so keep N out and give just Pand K (especially P ) in that scenario....

 

[primmiemoo]

A man I knew in Derbyshire had a contract to remove ashes from a paper mill boiler house to their tip . One time , the tip went on fire and couldn't be used , so he took the fine ashes and spread them on his ground , with some trepidation I think . He absolutely assured me that the ground that had had the ash grew an abundance of red clover , which established itself very well . I have no way of checking this , and I have not a clue as to why this happened , but he assured me this was true . I've tried with no success at all to stitch clover into existing swards , nor have we had success with including clover in reseed mixtures .

Might it have been the potash in the ash that gave the clover a filip?

 

[Av Gorritt]

Could be , I knew there was potash in wood ash , but not so sure about coal ash with it's high burning temperatures . Just in passing , apparently potash got it 's name originally as " the ash from under the cooking pot " By all accounts the usual thing when more primitive people finished their cooking was to gather some of the ash from under the cooking pot , and scoop it into the pot , mixing it with the residue grease and fat from the food , and boil it up again , they thus made a rather basic type of soft soap which help[ed to clean the pot ! Just sayin' !