Establishing grass and wildflowers using 750a

[Feldspar]

So we will have quite a few acres of grass buffer strips, whole fields of grass and wildflowers to establish this summer as part of our Mid Tier agreement.

I'd like to be able to do it without ploughing and with not much cultivation, and am looking for advice of what to do and what not to do.

When we went into ELS I went round with our Opico discs with a seeder and spreader plates on for the grass. This worked fine in the end, although the establishment wasn't great. Would the 750a be better straight into stubble, or cultivate first with something like the Terrastar?

Will then have an entire field of grass with legumes in it to establish. This will follow winter barley. Should I try and bale the straw off first to avoid getting problems with lots of trash? Don't have an obvious baling contractor around here who is at all reliable so this will be somewhat tricky.

Lastly, and probably most tricky of all, is the need to stitch in wildflowers into existing grass corner areas. We have selected option AB8 which is a flower rich margin. I am a bit worried about getting wildflowers to establish into an already thick grass sward. I have mowed the grass to try and reduce the thickness of the canopy. I am not sure that the 750a will be able to punch through the grass mat well enough, and even then I'm not sure whether the flowers will then establish. One back-up plan was to buy a whole load of plug plants which we can plant manually to at least make sure we have some flowers established in case of inspection.

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[Feldspar]

@Great In Grass @Simon Chiles @dontknowanything @martian @Clive

 

[Clive]

Think we will do ours with carrier and biodrill as it's all small seed

 

[Feldspar]

Think we will do ours with carrier and biodrill as it's all small seed

Will you carrier first, and then go a second time to seed? I am a bit worried that the Terrastar is a bit of blunt instrument. Opico discs are OK, but possibly a bit light to get enough tilth. Could go through without seed with the Claydon to cultivate more aggressively straight after harvest; then go back and drill with 750a once mellowed in September.

 

[Clive]

Will you carrier first, and then go a second time to seed? I am a bit worried that the Terrastar is a bit of blunt instrument. Opico discs are OK, but possibly a bit light to get enough tilth. Could go through without seed with the Claydon to cultivate more aggressively straight after harvest; then go back and drill once mellowed in September.

Will see what it looks like when we are there but quite possible one pass without seeding then another with seed on

 

[Feldspar]

Will see what it looks like when we are there but quite possible one pass without seeding then another with seed on

What do you think about removing straw when establishing grass? Bit worried that winter barley will generate a lot of trash which will interfere with the grass. Not much experience of establishing grass on a whole field scale.

 

[Clive]

What do you think about removing straw when establishing grass? Bit worried that winter barley will generate a lot of trash which will interfere with the grass. Not much experience of establishing grass on a whole field scale.

I've never done grass after cereal before - only grass I've done has been into existing grass and that went fine

 

[Great In Grass]

So we will have quite a few acres of grass buffer strips, whole fields of grass and wildflowers to establish this summer as part of our Mid Tier agreement.

I'd like to be able to do it without ploughing and with not much cultivation, and am looking for advice of what to do and what not to do.
Small seeds sow not too deep with good seed to soil contact.

When we went into ELS I went round with our Opico discs with a seeder and spreader plates on for the grass. This worked fine in the end, although the establishment wasn't great. Would the 750a be better straight into stubble, or cultivate first with something like the Terrastar?
Terrastar would work well, cultivate then roll to create a firm seed bed. Drill or broadcast short term ley & broadcast long term then roll again to get good seed to soil contact.

Will then have an entire field of grass with legumes in it to establish. This will follow winter barley. Should I try and bale the straw off first to avoid getting problems with lots of trash? Don't have an obvious baling contractor around here who is at all reliable so this will be somewhat tricky.
@martian maybe able to shed some light here with his knowledge of establishing his herbal leys. I'd like to see the removal of the straw though.

Lastly, and probably most tricky of all, is the need to stitch in wildflowers into existing grass corner areas. We have selected option AB8 which is a flower rich margin. I am a bit worried about getting wildflowers to establish into an already thick grass sward. I have mowed the grass to try and reduce the thickness of the canopy. I am not sure that the 750a will be able to punch through the grass mat well enough, and even then I'm not sure whether the flowers will then establish. One back-up plan was to buy a whole load of plug plants which we can plant manually to at least make sure we have some flowers established in case of inspection.
AB8 contains 90% fescues (mix), crested dogstail & meadow grass leaving 10% wild flowers. If you could surface rake/harrow to expose as much bare soil as possible that would be great and if small areas hand sowing works just fine and it will keep you fit. Harrow again lightly then roll for good seed to soil contact. Cut twice in it's first year to kill weeds and allow in light and create space for the newly sown plants. Subsequent years cut after flowering removal of all cuttings is advised as this lowers the soil fertility and allows the wild flowers room to grow and thrive. On no account fertilise.


Any advice gratefully received.

 

[Will Blackburn]

What do you think about removing straw when establishing grass? Bit worried that winter barley will generate a lot of trash which will interfere with the grass. Not much experience of establishing grass on a whole field scale.

I have done plenty of grass into stubble. Cross drill at 12mm deep, maybe 25mm if no clover in the mix. Bale the straw as slugs can wipe out germinating grass seed very quickly. If conditions are good as they should be after winter barley cut the seed rate as the 750 has such good placement you'll get great germination. Put some N on if you want some winter grazing.

 

[Feldspar]

I have done plenty of grass into stubble. Cross drill at 12mm deep, maybe 25mm if no clover in the mix. Bale the straw as slugs can wipe out germinating grass seed very quickly. If conditions are good as they should be after winter barley cut the seed rate as the 750 has such good placement you'll get great germination. Put some N on if you want some winter grazing.

Not looking to graze (in fact not allowed). Just need to find a reliable baling contractor!

Would you expect to pellet even if straw is removed?

 

[Will Blackburn]

Not looking to graze (in fact not allowed). Just need to find a reliable baling contractor!

Would you expect to pellet even if straw is removed?

I can't say you'll struggle if you chop, because we bale everything I don't know. I do know that given a normal summer then grass will take very very quickly in early August and likely not need pellets.

 

[Simon Chiles]

So we will have quite a few acres of grass buffer strips, whole fields of grass and wildflowers to establish this summer as part of our Mid Tier agreement.

I'd like to be able to do it without ploughing and with not much cultivation, and am looking for advice of what to do and what not to do.

When we went into ELS I went round with our Opico discs with a seeder and spreader plates on for the grass. This worked fine in the end, although the establishment wasn't great. Would the 750a be better straight into stubble, or cultivate first with something like the Terrastar?

Will then have an entire field of grass with legumes in it to establish. This will follow winter barley. Should I try and bale the straw off first to avoid getting problems with lots of trash? Don't have an obvious baling contractor around here who is at all reliable so this will be somewhat tricky.

Lastly, and probably most tricky of all, is the need to stitch in wildflowers into existing grass corner areas. We have selected option AB8 which is a flower rich margin. I am a bit worried about getting wildflowers to establish into an already thick grass sward. I have mowed the grass to try and reduce the thickness of the canopy. I am not sure that the 750a will be able to punch through the grass mat well enough, and even then I'm not sure whether the flowers will then establish. One back-up plan was to buy a whole load of plug plants which we can plant manually to at least make sure we have some flowers established in case of inspection.

Any advice gratefully received.

Personally I'd remove the straw and drill grass seed the day after baling, I wouldn't bother about drilling twice just don't shut fan down too much so that some seed is blown out of the slot. These are probably meadow grasses so don't drill deep, 12 mm is enough ( only drill ryegrass 25 mm). Roll well after drilling with a flat roll ( best) or even a couple of times with ring rolls, you're unlikely to overdo the rolling.
The biggest problem you'll have with the wild flowers are that they don't like competition, just cutting the grass probably won't be enough. The smart way would be to drill the flowers then spray the grass off with a really low dose of roundup, not enough to kill the grass just to check it. Bear in mind that some of the wild flowers won't appear until next year so you won't know instantly whether it was a success. If you can't use roundup you'll have to top the grass hard 5 days after drilling. The wild flowers will do better with low levels of nutrients so don't be tempted to give them a sniff of something to give them a boost.

 

[Feldspar]

I can't say you'll struggle if you chop, because we bale everything I don't know. I do know that given a normal summer then grass will take very very quickly in early August and likely not need pellets.

Another stupid / rookie question: when do you drill grass seed?! Sounds like I should try and bale the straw. Failing that might have to cultivate shallowly to mix in straw. Disc drill though thick winter barley straw doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. Is a Claydon too blunt an instrument, or do I remember that @Devon James uses his?

 

[Feldspar]

Personally I'd remove the straw and drill grass seed the day after baling, I wouldn't bother about drilling twice just don't shut fan down too much so that some seed is blown out of the slot. These are probably meadow grasses so don't drill deep, 12 mm is enough ( only drill ryegrass 25 mm). Roll well after drilling with a flat roll ( best) or even a couple of times with ring rolls, you're unlikely to overdo the rolling.
The biggest problem you'll have with the wild flowers are that they don't like competition, just cutting the grass probably won't be enough. The smart way would be to drill the flowers then spray the grass off with a really low dose of roundup, not enough to kill the grass just to check it. Bear in mind that some of the wild flowers won't appear until next year so you won't know instantly whether it was a success. If you can't use roundup you'll have to top the grass hard 5 days after drilling. The wild flowers will do better with low levels of nutrients so don't be tempted to give them a sniff of something to give them a boost.

Expert advice. Thanks. Already some nice flowers in there at the moment and would like to keep those and just supplement with a few more. Would the round-up do the existing flowers in? Also, some places have a few thistles in. Are they best dealt with by mowing, or should I spray them with something like Shield and then start again with the flowers after that?

 

[Great In Grass]

Plant grass seed once soil temp has reached 8dC and been there for a week & rising, July best avoided due to the possibility of drought. Clovers & your small seeds a couple of degrees more.

 

[Simon Chiles]

Expert advice. Thanks. Already some nice flowers in there at the moment and would like to keep those and just supplement with a few more. Would the round-up do the existing flowers in? Also, some places have a few thistles in. Are they best dealt with by mowing, or should I spray them with something like Shield and then start again with the flowers after that?

If the dose was low enough it would probably just knock the existing flowers without destroying them. You could manage the thistles by topping them although you might have to be careful on timings otherwise you'll knock the flowers. You'll have to get advice on the shield, I've taken thistles out of phacelia with it. Can you spot spray the thistles, that job looks as though it's got your name on it!!

 

[Simon Chiles]

Plant grass seed once soil temp has reached 8dC and been there for a week & rising, July best avoided due to the possibility of drought. Clovers & your small seeds a couple of degrees more.

Environmental grass mixes unlikely to contain clover?

 

[Feldspar]

If the dose was low enough it would probably just knock the existing flowers without destroying them. You could manage the thistles by topping them although you might have to be careful on timings otherwise you'll knock the flowers. You'll have to get advice on the shield, I've taken thistles out of phacelia with it. Can you spot spray the thistles, that job looks as though it's got your name on it!!

I did attempt to spot spray thistles once. Too much like hard work. I conveniently haven't got my knapsack spraying qualification yet!

 

[Great In Grass]

Environmental grass mixes unlikely to contain clover?

Should of said legumes I suppose.

 

[Simon Chiles]

Another stupid / rookie question: when do you drill grass seed?! Sounds like I should try and bale the straw. Failing that might have to cultivate shallowly to mix in straw. Disc drill though thick winter barley straw doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. Is a Claydon too blunt an instrument, or do I remember that @Devon James uses his?

I wouldn't use the claydon for meadow grass seed drilling, key to establishment is accurate seeding depth and they don't get any better than a 750 ( provided you get off the seat an set it up properly).