EU shows its true colours

[wanton dwarf]

Not surprised you disagree, the numbers are public Knowledge and the result was close, whichever way you look at it, If you want to play with numbers 16,141,241 people voted against leaving, the number is irreverent as more voted to leave.

Did 80% vote for parties with leave in their manifesto? Which parties were they?

What has politics got to do with the result, people from both ends of the political spectrum voted either way.

Labour, UKIP & Conservatives all had Leave in their manifesto ..

Politics has everything to do with it because in a democracy politics is the only way we'd ever get back in to the EU.

That will require a general election .. there is one every 5 years or sooner.

 

[stewart]

Labour, UKIP & Conservatives all had Leave in their manifesto ..

Did they? The Conservatives and Labour had the promise of a referendum in their manifesto, UKIP had leave it their manifesto and received 1.8% of the votes.

 

[rob1]

Did they? The Conservatives and Labour had the promise of a referendum in their manifesto, UKIP had leave it their manifesto and received 1.8% of the votes.

Wrong election

 

[wanton dwarf]

Wrong election

All we get is one bunch of people after another who cannot accept the facts and just want to be awkward ..

 

[Danllan]

Looking at the different parts of the question...

Your comments reveal a lack of understanding of European 'democracy'. Just google it and read up on the 'competences' of the EP, it's a farce. The role and powers of the EC are not comparable with those of ministers in the UK, or in any other democracy that comes to mind. The EC, effectively, has the EP by the short and curlies because of its successful divide and rule policy in re the smaller states - and, of course, blackmail via 'funding'.

I doubt you do see anything wrong with the UK forking out half a trillion pounds to our nearest competitors, principally because it hasn't come out of your pocket and isn't reducing the infrastructural spending in your country while subsidising that of said competitors.

Dispute all you want, the UK's lowest paid have been undercut by mass EU migration; it doesn't take much working out to see that ten euro-fellows hot-bedding it in one flat and pooling resources can live a damn site more cheaply per head than the Brit who has a home and family to pay for, and so can and do work for less, much, much less - because there is an awful lot of unpaid overtime put in in return for receiving the jobs... If you really think that isn't happening on a large scale and that the 'minimum wage' works in these situations, you are either naïve or ignorant of real life over here.

That isn't to say that you are either ignorant or naïve, you seem a bright fellow, so it could well be that you are fully aware of all this, but just choose to ignore / deny it because it doesn't fit in with your preferred narrative; but this is pure speculation on my part.

As for trading with fewer countries, rubbish, the simple fact is that we'll be trading with the all those we currently do and are currently intending to, but on a bilateral basis rather than at the pleasure of the EC. And that is what really, really hurts them, losing that power which they thought was theirs as of right, that and the money.

My plain reading of your phraseology clearly took your Little England comment at face value, you seem to be back peddling... it was pretty clearly written, have a little moral courage and stand by your words.

 

[stewart]

Your comments reveal a lack of understanding of European 'democracy'. Just google it and read up on the 'competences' of the EP, it's a farce. The role and powers of the EC are not comparable with those of ministers in the UK, or in any other democracy that comes to mind. The EC, effectively, has the EP by the short and curlies because of its successful divide and rule policy in re the smaller states - and, of course, blackmail via 'funding'.

I doubt you do see anything wrong with the UK forking out half a trillion pounds to our nearest competitors, principally because it hasn't come out of your pocket and isn't reducing the infrastructural spending in your country while subsidising that of said competitors.

Dispute all you want, the UK's lowest paid have been undercut by mass EU migration; it doesn't take much working out to see that ten euro-fellows hot-bedding it in one flat and pooling resources can live a damn site more cheaply per head than the Brit who has a home and family to pay for, and so can and do work for less, much, much less - because there is an awful lot of unpaid overtime put in in return for receiving the jobs... If you really think that isn't happening on a large scale and that the 'minimum wage' works in these situations, you are either naïve or ignorant of real life over here.

That isn't to say that you are either ignorant or naïve, you seem a bright fellow, so it could well be that you are fully aware of all this, but just choose to ignore / deny it because it doesn't fit in with your preferred narrative; but this is pure speculation on my part.

As for trading with fewer countries, rubbish, the simple fact is that we'll be trading with the all those we currently do and are currently intending to, but on a bilateral basis rather than at the pleasure of the EC. And that is what really, really hurts them, losing that power which they thought was theirs as of right, that and the money.

My plain reading of your phraseology clearly took your Little England comment at face value, you seem to be back peddling... it was pretty clearly written, have a little moral courage and stand by your words.

If there are employers not paying overtime then I would assume that is illegal, the same thing happens here although it is quite rare, once they are caught the penalties are severe.

Perhaps I am ignorant, naive or quite possibly both, or perhaps my views are not tainted by the gutter press, who are very influential in the UK.

You can take my Little Englander comments at face value, I am not back peddling at all, they do not cover everyone and do not cover any specific thread or subject, they are aimed at those that appear to have feeling of superiority due to their country of birth, for clarification the general comments are "They need us more than we need them"' "We have the highest welfare standards in the world" "We meet the highest regulations in the world" "Everyone but us breaks the rules" hopefully that clears that issue up.

I wish you well in your trading negotiations with the rest of the world ( I genuinely do )

 

[Martin Holden]

Well folks we are getting to the thin end of the wedge and who is going to blink first? Whether you agree with any politicians views, TM is probably running the clock down on the basis that this is position of strength in the negotiations. I am sure that many MP’s realise this but can’t be seen to agree. If the EU don’t back down I have a hunch that European relations from a political standpoint will go sour until common sense prevails. I take the view that those in power don’t think like the populous and therein lies the threat to the EU - self destruction. Why can’t the politicians drop the ideology of total integration of all economic and political union? Europe can never have equality across all member states, so why handcuff the poorer nations to an ideology that will never work for them?

We are entering a very interesting few weeks. Watch as our politicians continue to act in an party political manner and not for the nation. The next general election will be even more interesting.

 

[michael N123]

Slightly off topic but I was just in Amsterdam and i seen over 10 restaurants with a Argentinian flag above it for Argentinan beef Even the pubs without the flag above them still sold Argentinian beef
Argentina dosnt need to pay into the EU and likely deals Into the EU fine what have we got to be scared for ?

The photo of crap looking steakhouse is to show the flag most the restaurants have above the door

And the photo of a menu is what greeted me when I picked a restaurant WITHOUT the flag above it

 

[stewart]

View attachment 767384 Slightly off topic but I was just in Amsterdam and i seen over 10 restaurants with a Argentinian flag above it for Argentinan beef Even the pubs without the flag above them still sold Argentinian beef
Argentina dosnt need to pay into the EU and likely deals Into the EU fine what have we got to be scared for ?

The photo of crap looking steakhouse is to show the flag most the restaurants have above the door

And the photo of a menu is what greeted me when I picked a restaurant WITHOUT the flag above it View attachment 767386

Did you have your nails done next door while you were there or only go for the massage.

 

[michael N123]

Did you have your nails done next door while you were there or only go for the massage.

Never got a massage sadly went past some other places with red lighting and tarts knocking on the windows when we walked past tho

 

[Old McDonald]

. I take the view that those in power don’t think like the populous and therein lies the threat to the EU - self destruction. Why can’t the politicians drop the ideology of total integration of all economic and political union? Europe can never have equality across all member states, so why handcuff the poorer nations to an ideology that will never work for them?

I liked your post, but particularly this part.

Polticians in the EU, or anyone else in the EU, cannot drop the ideology because that is the opening statement of the original Founding Treaty - The Treaty of Rome, 25 March 1957:

DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,

I have lost count of the number of times I have spoken, written and posted this in the last 62 years. I know that most people who, like me, realised what I realised then are now dead, yet there are still younger people, people like you, who object to the ideology, but who do not know that this is the sole purpose of what is now the EU. It has been repeated in subsequent treaties just to make sure that it is regularly signed off by the government of the day in all EU countries. What can you do about it other than ensure your country leaves this "ever closer union"?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

England won the world cup in 1966 and we still talk about it .one game one result we won . Not no one can ever overturn it

Win means win . What a shame about those who were disappointed

 

[stewart]

I liked your post, but particularly this part.

Polticians in the EU, or anyone else in the EU, cannot drop the ideology because that is the opening statement of the original Founding Treaty - The Treaty of Rome, 25 March 1957:

DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,

I have lost count of the number of times I have spoken, written and posted this in the last 62 years. I know that most people who, like me, realised what I realised then are now dead, yet there are still younger people, people like you, who object to the ideology, but who do not know that this is the sole purpose of what is now the EU. It has been repeated in subsequent treaties just to make sure that it is regularly signed off by the government of the day in all EU countries. What can you do about it other than ensure your country leaves this "ever closer union"?

You can form. an ever closer union.

 

[stewart]

England won the world cup in 1966 and we still talk about it .one game one result we won . Not no one can ever overturn it

Win means win . What a shame about those who were disappointed

No wonder everyone still talks about it, it was the last and only time you won.

For the benefit of @Old McDonald the above comment is intended as light hearted banter, no malice or bitterness intended, hopefully non taken, Good luck in Japan later this year, the English team stand a good chance.

 

[Henarar]

You can form. an ever closer union.

what is the final destination of that ? and what happens afterwards
sounds like a road to a very large dictatorship, you can't get a closer union than one person in charge well apart from nobody in charge

 

[arcobob]

what is the final destination of that ? and what happens afterwards
sounds like a road to a very large dictatorship, you can't get a closer union than one person in charge well apart from nobody in charge

Precisely. Ever closer union entails joining the single currency ( not a roaring success) , fiscal unification and effectively government by 27 other states ( could be more) with different agendas. This has been promised by Macron, Merkle and even the new German chancellor in waiting. We won`t be in a position to stop this happening. Loss of sovreignty---. You ain`t seen nothing yet.

 

[Martin Holden]

I liked your post, but particularly this part.

Polticians in the EU, or anyone else in the EU, cannot drop the ideology because that is the opening statement of the original Founding Treaty - The Treaty of Rome, 25 March 1957:

DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,

I have lost count of the number of times I have spoken, written and posted this in the last 62 years. I know that most people who, like me, realised what I realised then are now dead, yet there are still younger people, people like you, who object to the ideology, but who do not know that this is the sole purpose of what is now the EU. It has been repeated in subsequent treaties just to make sure that it is regularly signed off by the government of the day in all EU countries. What can you do about it other than ensure your country leaves this "ever closer union"?

A knowledge of history is a powerful thing. I hadn’t looked back at this and fair enough, then why did we join in the first place, unless at that time “we” thought we would not end up where “we” are now. I still struggle to believe that total integration is what every member state craves. After all each has their own culture and langauage (almost) and that should be preserved! What next? A European language?? I jest of course, but thanks for the reminder. These type of facts should have been on the table for all to review in 2016

 

[arcobob]

A knowledge of history is a powerful thing. I hadn’t looked back at this and fair enough, then why did we join in the first place, unless at that time “we” thought we would not end up where “we” are now. I still struggle to believe that total integration is what every member state craves. After all each has their own culture and langauage (almost) and that should be preserved! What next? A European language?? I jest of course, but thanks for the reminder. These type of facts should have been on the table for all to review in 2016

They are openly trying to destroy national identity and nationalism because it will always keep rising up and thwart their objectives. It is cleansing in slow motion.

 

[linga]

For many complete integration/unification is a holy grail
I doubt the voters of any country want that but very few get the chance to have a say

 

[rob1]

A knowledge of history is a powerful thing. I hadn’t looked back at this and fair enough, then why did we join in the first place, unless at that time “we” thought we would not end up where “we” are now. I still struggle to believe that total integration is what every member state craves. After all each has their own culture and langauage (almost) and that should be preserved! What next? A European language?? I jest of course, but thanks for the reminder. These type of facts should have been on the table for all to review in 2016

I dont think we were ever told that the was the ultimate objective.