Farming without subsidies

[brigadoon]

big customer with a power station and bio mass not subsidised ?

Customers are always welcome - the more the better - for timber, beef or lamb!

There is no subsidy for growing biomass that I know of other than establishment grants for short rotation coppice - the RHI has certainly put a floor in the market for small round wood which is very welcome - but that is a subsidy to the generating industry not the forestry industry

 

[Hilly]

r ag.

Customers are always welcome - the more the better - for timber, beef or lamb!

There is no subsidy for growing biomass that I know of other than establishment grants for short rotation coppice - the RHI has certainly put a floor in the market for small round wood which is very welcome - but that is a subsidy to the generating industry not the forestry industry

Subs are subs direct or in direct you know certain subs have helped forestry big time recently so don`t bull sh!t, be like tesco getting 100 quid to go buy fat lambs.

 

[lazy farmer]

@Cowabunga you really shouldn’t measure ever dairy farm with yours it does the more progressive parts of the industry a great disservice to suggest we are all like your underinvested (your own admisson) business we are not and as such have nothing to fear from the future.
@ollie989898 and @Farmer Roy i admire your tenacity but you really are wasting your time with this group of junkies.
We have only dried off 3 weeks ago and I can’t wait to get started again. I’ve nearly got the farm how I want and the cows are getting there too. I can’t wait to see what can be achieved this season. Crack on

 

[Kiwi Pete]

to be fair thats what was said about new zealand and while some did lose everything life carried on, we have a lot more consumers than they have so we can survive, at least we have had enough warning to get our house in order, rents and land price will fall which wiill allow new vibrant entrants with new ideas to come in, of course we will need to work together to get more of the retail price and thats where it will fall down if we arent careful

A fair few who ceased to farm of their own accord were simply recycled back in as managers, agronomists etc etc.
Rural decline would have been far far worse had we kept subsidies, many small towns were railway towns or mining towns.

Main differences being: we hadn't been getting paid to stay on the land for a century, and their was enough spare cash about that most farmers were just being daft with it, our nearest neighbour had bought 3 powerboats and a sailboat with the SMP, so there was probably quite a bit less dependency - esp in the low country.

It helped that NZ realised it was going broke .

 

[brigadoon]

r ag.

Subs are subs direct or in direct you know certain subs have helped forestry big time recently so don`t bull sh!t, be like tesco getting 100 quid to go buy fat lambs.

Dry your eyes - exactly the same indirect subs you refer to are ending up in the pockets of arable farmers with straw to sell or those willing to grow triticale SRC or inputs for AD.

There is encouragement for folks to plant trees - that is forestry grants - they are allowed to retain BPS - that is a subsidy

What anyone else gets and how they spend it is another matter

 

[Farmer Roy]

I do not see Australia as a competitor you do not compete with us as most of your outputs can find markets closer to Australia
The majority of wheat you grow is too high quality and price and is further than equivalent Canadians German wheat
Canola May be imported into Europe which now may be gm

I agree - I don't see us as competitors either. All of the commodities I produce are either consumed locally or exported to the Middle East, the Indian Sub Continent, or Asia - which are our main markets. Personally, to me, from an agricultural trading point of view, the UK is largely irrelevant.
However, some people seem to get worked up about the fact that our costs may be lower, or our yields are lower, our regulations may be "different" or the sun shines for longer & this is somehow unfair ?

 

[Lexion1000]

I think the thing that is going to hit many businesses hard is that land prices will drop significantly if/when subs disappear. Anyone who has borrowed heavily against land valued at high levels is going to have the double whammy of repayments being more difficult to make and the falling value meaning their ‘get out’ option of selling up melts away in front of their eyes. The farms that will be fine are the ones who have diversified profitably, farm on the urban fringe, have low levels of debt, etc. There are going to be a lot of very good farmers that go under.

 

[Sharpy]

Then plant it with trees
Or let someone else do something else with it

Theres subs on the trees. Will they go too?

 

[stewart]

last i heard there was concern in your dairy sector about upcoming environmental regulations...thats gonna cost money and once bill 62-1 is passed are the banks going lend for capital upgrades

i'm not anti-kiwi and i feel for you guys.....but holding up nz as an example of farming without subs is wrong IMO

The already strict environmental regulations are being toughened up (which gives lie to the often quoted statement that NZ has low regulation) there is a cost to this and the banks will lend to most farms as long as they can meet the repayments, if they cannot then some will have to sell up.

NZ farms without subsidy, does it profitably and has done for years, I therefore fail to understand why it cannot be held up as an example of farming without subs.

Watch the clip that Clive put up earlier, NZ was almost bankrupt 30 years ago and is now in the top 3 on a Global Prosperity Index, given that NZs major exports are land based it shows that agriculture can prosper without subsidies.

 

[Hilly]

Dry your eyes - exactly the same indirect subs you refer to are ending up in the pockets of arable farmers with straw to sell or those willing to grow triticale SRC or inputs for AD.

There is encouragement for folks to plant trees - that is forestry grants - they are allowed to retain BPS - that is a subsidy

What anyone else gets and how they spend it is another matter

Im only interested whats going to happen with forestry subs after we leave the eu, for my situation if i want to expand forestry is a bigger competitor than another farmer so it`s fairly relevant to me, thing is you like me have no clue so why not say that in the first place ? your clueless about the future of forestry subs the same as the farmers are thats all you had to say, cut the bull sh!t man.

 

[spin cycle]

The already strict environmental regulations are being toughened up (which gives lie to the often quoted statement that NZ has low regulation) there is a cost to this and the banks will lend to most farms as long as they can meet the repayments, if they cannot then some will have to sell up.

NZ farms without subsidy, does it profitably and has done for years, I therefore fail to understand why it cannot be held up as an example of farming without subs.

Watch the clip that Clive put up earlier, NZ was almost bankrupt 30 years ago and is now in the top 3 on a Global Prosperity Index, given that NZs major exports are land based it shows that agriculture can prosper without subsidies.

we all have our opinions and i respect yours.....but i stand by my assertion that if nz farmers need govt protection from it's own banks then things are not rosy

 

[Bury the Trash]

I think the thing that is going to hit many businesses hard is that land prices will drop significantly if/when subs disappear. Anyone who has borrowed heavily against land valued at high levels is going to have the double whammy of repayments being more difficult to make and the falling value meaning their ‘get out’ option of selling up melts away in front of their eyes. The farms that will be fine are the ones who have diversified profitably, farm on the urban fringe, have low levels of debt, etc. There are going to be a lot of very good farmers that go under.

otherthan less favoured areas with no tourism or renewables etc use land values wont drop long term because of farm subsidy removal. good ground is needed for vegtable growing and all conurbations will expand on greenfield as they are now.
amenity purchasers around villages keep value up
they dont make land anymore.

 

[Tim W]

Theres subs on the trees. Will they go too?

Who knows ?
Much as i would like to see an immediate cessation of all land area based subs i don't actually think it will happen
Mainly because i am a cynical old sod who thinks that there are too many vested interests with people in high places

Wait and see I guess---interesting times

 

[stewart]

Friend of mine has family farming in NZ says there are import tariffs and therefore artificially high prices. Is this true?
If you say not then I will go back to him for clarification as he has told me more than once.

Very few food products have import tariffs, there are no tariffs on meat or vegetables, there is a 5% tariff on some milk products, generally yoghurt or milk powder, if the country importing has a free trade agreement there is no tariff on these products, food prices are higher here due in part to a low population but also due to GST (VAT) on food.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Theres subs on the trees. Will they go too?

i spend some of my modest bps sum each year on trees,and there maintenance not on rr's and racing cars even , Mrs dont get fancy kitchen either....

 

[stewart]

We wouldn’t need them if we had the same chemistry available to us that you have

It just isn't fair.

 

[som farmer]

all the supermarkets have made huge efforts to promote 'local/ uk' produce.
given the fact that their accountants have worked out to the last decimal point, including the amount of subs we get, how much it costs the above average farmer to produce, how will they justify the change to imported?
as for rents, they will find their own level. that will be what a farmer thinks its worth , if he pays to much, he won't farming for long. landlords may not like it, but hard luck.
those of us (me, hopefully) that continue to farm, will have to learn risk management, and will have to alter our businesses round to either reduce there costs, find other outlets, self market, join up in groups, or stop growing that particular crop
then those who thrive, will learn that, when a government f's the economy and the pound drops through the floor, we will suddenly be wanted again!!!

 

[unlacedgecko]

 

[turbo]

It just isn't fair.

never said it wasn't fair

 

[unlacedgecko]

I would strongly advise any young people not to waste their lives in the livestock sector of agriculture. Do not tie yourselves down to a cow's tail, lumbered with massive mortgages or not, with all the risks and lack of government commitment [eg.-TB and F&M] loaded on your own backs while working for at best a pittance and at worse for the banks in the medium term. Just don't do it. You are not a charity and there is so much more to life than work, stress and debt and worrying about how to pay your bills every month without hitting a bank limit.

sh!t. I’m relying on the livestock sector making me a millionaire...