Fencing cost

[Post Driver]

https://stmaaprodfwsite.blob.core.windows.net/assets/sites/1/2023/04/NAAC_Contracting_Prices_Survey_2023_Final-1.pdf?_ga=2.54848555.1666136791.1703746286-1338762808.1703746286

NAAC survey
stock fencing at £10.90/m
Post knocking at £52/hr

 

[Will Blackburn]

Drains, £3.50 or £5.50 with stone.

 

[Willie adie]

Id say that your looking at £10 per metre supply and erect easily,

 

[workin f nowt]

Not knowing your situation as in if you funded improvements 100% or scheme aided but the parasite will work his rent on you getting at least half costs from schemes so be prepared

 

[tepapa]

Not knowing your situation as in if you funded improvements 100% or scheme aided but the parasite will work his rent on you getting at least half costs from schemes so be prepared

Since Welsh government haven't upgraded payment rates in well over 10 years, at current prices the grant element wouldn't cover 30% of the cost.

 

[bigw]

You will have done close on 100k of improvements i would have thought

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

Since Welsh government haven't upgraded payment rates in well over 10 years, at current prices the grant element wouldn't cover 30% of the cost.

I wonder if said agent was asked to quote for doing the application, whether it would run over the amount of the grant. (probably the fence too)

 

[Spencer]

You will have done close on 100k of improvements i would have thought

Think our mate in cords will argue the original reduction in rent say over 10 years (don’t know the term), will now have been covered as per the original “improvements“ agreement. Now he’ll be after full market rent

 

[neilo]

Think our mate in cords will argue the original reduction in rent say over 10 years (don’t know the term), will now have been covered as per the original “improvements“ agreement. Now he’ll be after full market rent

He can’t do that. As he seemed to ‘forget’ last time, until I reminded him, FBT rents are set at the current market value of the holding, in the condition it was in when you took it on. My term is 20 years and we are approaching 12 years in.
I did ask him for comparables and threatened arbitration last time around, and I don’t expect this year’s discussions to be any less forthright. I just wanted to have some idea of the figures to hand, ready.

 

[Devil's advocate]

I do think LL need to take into account rent increases as the job won’t stand it imo.
The new word being sustainable so rents should be just that to keep folk on the land and taking care of it for future generations.
You cannot have the penny and the bun.

As a tenant I agree.

But who really decides the rent. Its down to what people tender.

 

[beardface]

Surely your improvements want placing down as tenant improvements and costed back to you on termination? As for rent review I'd look to meet them in the middle given the current climate on "stewardship" if they won't bite then I'd push for arbitration. Not sure what farm rental job is like in Wales, but its slowly getting better in England and improvements to tenants rights is maybe the only plus I could see with a change of government.

 

[serf]

Rent review is due soon and LL's agent is a greedy bugger who thinks it only goes one way. As last time, I expect it will come down to a discussion about the state of the place when I came here and how much I have spent sorting it out for them.
On a bit of informal advice from an agent, I have had a tally up of how much fencing I've put up, water pipes in, new drains, etc, all without LL input. I'm struggling to come up with a figure of how much would it cost them to get a contractor to do it?

Total is about 8000m of HT wire netting, 1800m of water pipe and 1000m of new drains.

Also 55 new gates & posts and 20 water troughs, but I can put a figure on those myself.

TIA.

The way things are heading they'll prob want it to go back to sh!t with these new schemes and ideas ...
Block all the drains up and let the hedges go wild

 

[neilo]

Surely your improvements want placing down as tenant improvements and costed back to you on termination? As for rent review I'd look to meet them in the middle given the current climate on "stewardship" if they won't bite then I'd push for arbitration. Not sure what farm rental job is like in Wales, but its slowly getting better in England and improvements to tenants rights is maybe the only plus I could see with a change of government.

I'm not looking to get paid for those improvements at this stage, just having ammunition ready. It was let as a place that needed a lot of sorting out, with the rent level based on that. New, hungrier, agent has come in, who only sees the place now and says anyone would pay at least double what I am, but that's based on the improvements that I've made. His argument will be buoyed by the fact that he's let several blocks recently, some at nearly triple my rent reportedly. They have very different calculators to me!
If and when we leave here, it will be split apart, letting the house privately and the land split into appropriate blocks to attract those hungry bidders again.

There is no 'stewardship' option in Wales currently, so it can't all be taken back in hand and put into legume fallow or whatever. They have tried farming units 'in hand' and share farming previously, and been left bruised by the experience. I doubt they'll be keen to try that again. Why would they, when there are plenty of hungry local tenants who will pay well in excess of what they could earn farming it themselves?

 

[Bwcho]

I'm not looking to get paid for those improvements at this stage, just having ammunition ready. It was let as a place that needed a lot of sorting out, with the rent level based on that. New, hungrier, agent has come in, who only sees the place now and says anyone would pay at least double what I am, but that's based on the improvements that I've made. His argument will be buoyed by the fact that he's let several blocks recently, some at nearly triple my rent reportedly. They have very different calculators to me!
If and when we leave here, it will be split apart, letting the house privately and the land split into appropriate blocks to attract those hungry bidders again.

There is no 'stewardship' option in Wales currently, so it can't all be taken back in hand and put into legume fallow or whatever. They have tried farming units 'in hand' and share farming previously, and been left bruised by the experience. I doubt they'll be keen to try that again. Why would they, when there are plenty of hungry local tenants who will pay well in excess of what they could earn farming it themselves?

As it is a new agent you're dealing with, do you have before and after photos of the place/work to be able to show him/her? No doubt the agent will be more concerned with the pounds, pence and shillings but as supporting evidence some photos, or even Google Earth time loop screenshots, might be a useful appendix in the 'File of Ammunition'.

 

[neilo]

As it is a new agent you're dealing with, do you have before and after photos of the place/work to be able to show him/her? No doubt the agent will be more concerned with the pounds, pence and shillings but as supporting evidence some photos, or even Google Earth time loop screenshots, might be a useful appendix in the 'File of Ammunition'.

Some, but not as many as I'd like. I had prepared a file of such evidence ready for the arbitration case three years ago, but we came to an agreement before it came to that.

With the benefit of hindsight, I would encourage any new tenant to document the whole place in photographs, then take some more.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Some, but not as many as I'd like. I had prepared a file of such evidence ready for the arbitration case three years ago, but we came to an agreement before it came to that.

With the benefit of hindsight, I would encourage any new tenant to document the whole place in photographs, then take some more.

and I would make sure the photos are geotagged (as we do for grant claims), or actually as we get son to do for grant claims!

 

[dogandstick]

I'm not looking to get paid for those improvements at this stage, just having ammunition ready. It was let as a place that needed a lot of sorting out, with the rent level based on that. New, hungrier, agent has come in, who only sees the place now and says anyone would pay at least double what I am, but that's based on the improvements that I've made. His argument will be buoyed by the fact that he's let several blocks recently, some at nearly triple my rent reportedly. They have very different calculators to me!
If and when we leave here, it will be split apart, letting the house privately and the land split into appropriate blocks to attract those hungry bidders again.

There is no 'stewardship' option in Wales currently, so it can't all be taken back in hand and put into legume fallow or whatever. They have tried farming units 'in hand' and share farming previously, and been left bruised by the experience. I doubt they'll be keen to try that again. Why would they, when there are plenty of hungry local tenants who will pay well in excess of what they could earn farming it themselves?

I really don’t understand the market at the moment. Everyone clambering for the next blade of grass/inch of soil and willing to pay exorbitant prices to achieve it, whilst mental health support supposedly in record demand.

My calculator must be faulty too!

 

[Andrew_Ni]

I do think LL need to take into account rent increases as the job won’t stand it imo.
The new word being sustainable so rents should be just that to keep folk on the land and taking care of it for future generations.
You cannot have the penny and the bun.

in this modern world, sustainable means growing feedstock for an AD plant, renting land for solar panels, planting in trees for carbon offsets or worst of all let it revert to some sort of wilderness and brand it as rewilding. None of which manage to provide anything people can eat.

 

[Henery]

Soil samples at the start of tenancy invaluable too.
Conversation with someone at TFA recently, they were truly amazed at the size of tenders being offered recently.A recipe for working for nothing for the tenant.
Farmers are and always have been their own worst enemy, especially those without a calculator….
Good luck @neilo , it’s a brutal market…. I should know.

 

[neilo]

Soil samples at the start of tenancy invaluable too.
Conversation with someone at TFA recently, they were truly amazed at the size of tenders being offered recently.A recipe for working for nothing for the tenant.
Farmers are and always have been their own worst enemy, especially those without a calculator….
Good luck @neilo , it’s a brutal market…. I should know.

We still sampled every field here, before we'd arrived. It's in the file.
2t lime per acre went on every field that could travel, right at the start.