Future prof power supply needs for EV Charging?

[Doing it for the kids]

Out and about on half term and saw a car charging unit, made me think.

im looking to future proof a commercial project and plan to run ducts from the units to the car park ready to install as demand grown.

what sort of supplies are most sensible though?

https://d3h256n3bzippp.cloudfront.net/PP-D-170091-4-Twin-Charger-Datasheet-3.pdf this was what I saw, the biggest one there looks like it needs to be a 64A 3ph supply!

whats best for future proofing?

 

[Will0]

When we are travelling with our EV, we only look for 50kw chargers, and I think the future is even higher speeds.

Unless your customers are looking to stay overnight?

 

[rollestonpark]

We've had an EV for nearly 3 years...
If people are charging at work, then they are going to be there for a good number of hours.
So I'd say install a 3 phase 32amp supply to each location you are looking to charge at, that will cover any EV to charge on AC upto 22kw.
Which is the max an EV can charge at on AC. (most are half this speed or less)

If the charge point your looking at is the one in the pdf, then they are 2 points in 1 so double the above(so yes 63amp 3 ph for 2 x 22kw), or do it single phase which will be 7kw each side rather than 22kw.

If you are looking to install a rapid, then a DC 50kw rapid costs about £12000 to £15000, then it will require a 3phase 125amp supply for each one.
If you want to go for a 150kw rapid, then multiply the numbers by 3.

Unless you have deep pockets, I'd do the top one.
If you are not looking to charge people for the electric, then you could just put a 3phase 32amp red plug on the wall, and let them use the charger that came with the car. (although, they may need adapters to connect the charger depending on type)
This will be way cheaper.

I will just add that rapids are a high maintenance nightmare, so factor that in also. AC is fairly simple in comparison/maintenance free ish.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Thanks everyone.

ive no plans to install these, the tenants can if they want, I just get deeply upset seeing new concrete cut up for trenches, hence ducting now.

starting to wonder if 3ph 100 amp supplies to each unit will be enough now but they can pay for the upgrade!

 

[rollestonpark]

Thanks everyone.

ive no plans to install these, the tenants can if they want, I just get deeply upset seeing new concrete cut up for trenches, hence ducting now.

starting to wonder if 3ph 100 amp supplies to each unit will be enough now but they can pay for the upgrade!

personally, if I was doing it, mark out where each double side post will likely go.
Then aim to put 3 phase 63 amp (or more) to each post location. That will do it easily.

When I go to places such as the harry potter studios with the kids, they have 40 AC chargers each is 1 phase 32 amp 7kw.
Chester zoo has quite alot as well, again all single phase 7kw (32amp)
This seems to be the norm for the UK installs, very occasionally you are lucky and get a 3 phase 22kw supply, but this is rare.

So a 3 phase 63 amp supply to each post would be belt and braces...

 

[rollestonpark]

I do think that going forward, if your renting out your buildings to some of these fancy companies.
Having cheap or free charging in the yard could be quite a draw in the future.

A bit like having fibre broadband availible, if you can't get it (decent broadband) to your yard, few will rent.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

That’s a huge amount of infrastructure costs.

if these all got plugged in together the grid will melt around here though!

think I’ll just run plenty of ducts and leave the tenant to figure it out!

 

[sjt01]

If you get the Tesla High Powered Wall connectors (HPWC) you can connect them single or three phase, and with an interconnect they will share the available current from your supply, up to 32A per phase (can be regulated down to 6 A minimum). So if you have one car on, they get full whack, when more are connected they share it.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

I do think that going forward, if your renting out your buildings to some of these fancy companies.
Having cheap or free charging in the yard could be quite a draw in the future.

A bit like having fibre broadband availible, if you can't get it (decent broadband) to your yard, few will rent.

quite agree. Worked on fibre a few yeasts back ready for this.

EV is coming one way or the other, I’m just trying to figure proof now.

looks good on the lettings particulars when tenants are considering their options as well!

 

[Cowabunga]

Is a Tesla Cybertruck with its massive battery and the practical requirement for charging to at least 80% in ten hours even going to be remotely possible for places where there is only a single phase supply? If not, then future electric vehicle use by single phase property owners is not going to be practical or really possible. Either we shall have to run Nissan Leaf type vehicles with small batteries and a very limited range, or stick with IC engines, possibly with plug-in hybrid [tiny] batteries.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Is a Tesla Cybertruck with its massive battery and the practical requirement for charging to at least 80% in ten hours even going to be remotely possible for places where there is only a single phase supply? If not, then future electric vehicle use by single phase property owners is not going to be practical or really possible. Either we shall have to run Nissan Leaf type vehicles with small batteries and a very limited range, or stick with IC engines, possibly with plug-in hybrid [tiny] batteries.

national grid are pooing their pants for this very reason.

there just ain’t the infrastructure out there to supply all this power and pv and wind can only do so much with a few batteries for a quick small plug.

 

[Cowabunga]

national grid are pooing their pants for this very reason.

there just ain’t the infrastructure out there to supply all this power and pv and wind can only do so much with a few batteries for a quick small plug.

National Grid probably don't give a damn about individual places that will only ever have single phase. They are probably more concerned with the potential juice being extracted by those that actually do have three phase and can therefore suck it out of the grid at a prodigious rate.

 

[Cowabunga]

Just done a bit of research and the typical farm single phase [commercial] supply can only supply 32A/7.4kW with a domestic supply held that. At 32A a future 100kVh vehicle battery would need to charge for about 14 hours from empty to full. In practical use it would no be run till empty and would not need to be 100% fully charged, but it would still be a good all-nighter 10 hour charge.
Three phase Tesla Superchargers can be anything from 30kW to an amazing 150kW DC and charge that same 100kWh battery in about one hour. Most households will be stuck with either a 13A socket or 16A dedicated charger, and most single phase farms will never get more than a 7.4kW charge rate, and that only if the wiring is up to it without melting and causing a fire.

A standard commercial three phase supply is, by the way, likely to be only 22kW using 32A per phase. So not really fit for the future, but a whole lot better than your typical single phase supply.

 

[rollestonpark]

Because unlike the rest of europe, we in the UK for some reason have only single phase for most domestic properties. This limits EV charge rate to 7kw.
This is not great for large battery EVs. If they are flat, they will likely need to start charging when they get home from work say 5/6pm (rather than charging during the early hours) which is when the grid is at it's limit.
Also if too many households on the same phase all charge together, that will cause phase imbalance.

The big battery trucks like teslas etc will have for sure a 22kw charger onboard.
On a single phase supply it'll do 7kw max, if the battery is a big one say 180kwh, it could take 25 hours to charge.
I suppose you may have to leave next mornig with the battery half full and try to make it up on the next night's charge cycle?

But will be interesting to see how the grid holds out when everyone charges at 5pm in the winter and then goes in and switches on the kettle

 

[chickens and wheat]

Those figures are assuming nothing else on farm is consuming power when you are wanting to charge your car.
All this was part off my reasoning when paying through the nose to upgrade my transformer recently
Now on 250kva .
Old 100kva was very nearly maxed out and didnt allow sizeable solar panel set up

 

[sjt01]

Just done a bit of research and the typical farm single phase [commercial] supply can only supply 32A/7.4kW with a domestic supply held that. At 32A a future 100kVh vehicle battery would need to charge for about 14 hours from empty to full. In practical use it would no be run till empty and would not need to be 100% fully charged, but it would still be a good all-nighter 10 hour charge.
Three phase Tesla Superchargers can be anything from 30kW to an amazing 150kW DC and charge that same 100kWh battery in about one hour. Most households will be stuck with either a 13A socket or 16A dedicated charger, and most single phase farms will never get more than a 7.4kW charge rate, and that only if the wiring is up to it without melting and causing a fire.

A standard commercial three phase supply is, by the way, likely to be only 22kW using 32A per phase. So not really fit for the future, but a whole lot better than your typical single phase supply.

V3 Tesla Superchargers can do 250 kW at present, Ionity 350kW (but that is at 900V, rather than the 400v of the Tesla). Few cars are able to accept that rate of charge (except perhaps @Clive 's motor)

 

[Poncherello1976]

When we did our holiday let in 2018, we out in an EV charger. It is only single phase 32 amp, but obviously people are staying the night so can plug it in while they are asleep and it will be ready for the morning. We put this in as it was a toss up between that and a hot tub, and we thought the charger would be a bigger draw than the hot tub. We had our first EV car abut 1 month ago, and we have another one coming on Friday. The first car was a brand new Tesla and they were well happy with it. Not sure what car is coming this time. We do not charge for the electric, but would like to think that it adds to our demand and keeps us busy and we can keep putting the prices up for a stay.
Obviously this is slightly different to a working environment when people may only come for a few hours or so.

 

[Cowabunga]

Those figures are assuming nothing else on farm is consuming power when you are wanting to charge your car.
All this was part off my reasoning when paying through the nose to upgrade my transformer recently
Now on 250kva .
Old 100kva was very nearly maxed out and didnt allow sizeable solar panel set up

You've hit a few nails on their head there. In my case my single phase would be charging the car or two or even eventually three vehicles at night and overlap with the milking machine and random hours of the milk tank compressors working, plus the electric shed scrapers five times during the night.
My supply, let alone the greater grid, just will not cope. I'll be limited to one electric vehicle and two IC vehicles at best.

 

[Cowabunga]

A possible answer could be a solar array feeding Tesla's Powerwall modular battery system. I haven't a clue how big an array I would need to cover the winter months and to charge three large electric battery cars plus, while we are at it, the farm electricity supply. It sounds like a costly exercise even if it could be made to work.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

National Grid probably don't give a damn about individual places that will only ever have single phase. They are probably more concerned with the potential juice being extracted by those that actually do have three phase and can therefore suck it out of the grid at a prodigious rate.

Uk service stations are having some serious head scratching moments. They are predicting huge increases in demand and have no idea who will fund the eye watering costs for network upgrades.

seeing the posts above it’s no surprise, if even half of cars in the uk are EV then electric demand will soar!