Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Yep.
Now just year upon year of trade uncertainty to embrace
Doomster, gloomster. Mr Johnson our future Prime Minister assures me that the trade deal and all loose end be tidied up by next summer. Brexit done.
G Election
- Thread starter cider_eater
- Start date
Doomster, gloomster. Mr Johnson our future Prime Minister assures me that the trade deal and all loose end be tidied up by next summer. Brexit done.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Yes. As reassuring as the husband telling the wife (as he is leaving with the au pair) “that everything will be all right “
.
Very tongue in cheek. The EU will be a pain in the arse as long as they see fit. How long that will be anyone knows but any claim that they have it all worked out is as sound as the Labour party manifesto.
Ambiguous. Who for, the au pair, the wife or the chancer himself? ??
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
.
Very tongue in cheek. The EU will be a pain in the arse as long as they see fit. How long that will be anyone knows but any claim that they have it all worked out is as sound as the Labour party manifesto.
Yes, tongue in cheek. The EU may be a pain. But then equally the UK is a pain if one looks from the EU perspective, though I appreciate for Leavers this is not a thought they care to have.
Anyway, as I said in my post, and meant, as a floating voter I have listened to Mr Johnson's various speeches and interviews in the past few days and he assures me that Brexit will be done once he is re-elected, and there will be a Trade Agreement agreed and signed off before December 31st 2020. No requirement to leave transition period without a deal.
So I take him at his word.
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Another heart of gold
- Location
- Ceredigion
Labour debating who the New Labour Leader will be on tv this morning
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
The masters of cutting their own throats
- Location
- Hereford
Well lets be honest they haven't really got a leader at the moment !
Courier
Member
- Location
- M62 - M1 - M18 triangle
As always my vote will be irrelevant, ‘coz my vote is cast in “safe seat “ constituency.
Courier
Member
- Location
- M62 - M1 - M18 triangle
As did Jennifer Arcuri ..............
- Location
- Limousin
It looks like the EU is already well underway with the trade agreement. So, they only need Boris to sign it and get it though Parliament and the job can be competed before the 2020 deadline. Boris will be happy that he has got a deal though, the EU are happy they get the deal they want, what's not to like?
I would like to believe all that. Why have we wasted all this time other than to appease bad losers. We should have left on day one and the whole thing would have been settled by now. So much unnecessary time being fobbed off by remainers like TM.It looks like the EU is already well underway with the trade agreement. So, they only need Boris to sign it and get it though Parliament and the job can be competed before the 2020 deadline. Boris will be happy that he has got a deal though, the EU are happy they get the deal they want, what's not to like?
- Location
- South Wales UK
Going for it on Question time now?
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Europe’s engineers tell the UK: we need you
Brexit will put industry on the continent in a weaker position as well as here, manufacturing chiefs warn
Robert Lea, Industrial Editor
December 9 2019, 12:01am, The Times
Manufacturers including Airbus and BMW have key facilities in Britain and it would be hugely expensive to replace themMATT CARDY/GETTY IMAGES
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None. A shrug of the shoulders. A shake of the head. That’s the answer from the head of Europe’s confederation of engineering and manufacturing companies when asked to give reasons why, at the moment, industrial businesses from the Continent would invest in Britain.
Oliver Zander is in London not to comment on the stasis in British industry, nor to seek to overturn the result of the European referendum (though he strongly believes that the best solution to Brexit is not to do it at all). He is in town to stand square behind Make UK, the manufacturing trade body, in making the best case for the best Brexit possible.
His position is straightforward. Europe is a strong industrial cluster of businesses and sectors in global competition with the United States and China and the Far East. Britain is a strong part of that cluster, fully integrated into a Europe-wide supply chain. If the UK is to leave that, then the UK will be weakened — and, crucially from the European perspective, the EU will be weakened, too. Put plainly, Brexit is as bad for European industry as it is for British industry.
The BMW group plant near Oxford. BMW makes engines in Britain for cars assembled in GermanyTOLGA AKMEN/AFP/GETTY IMAGES
The position of Make UK, the rebranded EEF or Engineering Employers’ Federation, is well trodden. One of the loudest campaigners to remain in the EU, it has reported that since the referendum three and a half years ago 125,000 jobs have been or will be lost in manufacturing companies in this country: think the big redundancy programmes at Jaguar Land Rover, Honda, Ford, Rolls-Royce aerospace and the steel industry.
A Make UK fact sheet would tell you that British manufacturers export £270 billion of goods a year, of which about half is trade with the EU. More than half of that EU trade is not in finished goods, such as a Nissan car from the production line in Sunderland, but in manufactured components and subsystems bound for European supply chains into which they are fully integrated. Indeed, a quarter of Britain’s 300,000 manufacturing businesses are inextricably entwined in the single market and purposely have become a specialist part of that integrated supply chain. For these companies, the politician who tells them that they can stop selling their goods to France and can trade instead with South Korea is a fool.
Mr Zander, 51, is director-general of Gesamtmetall, the federation of German employers in the metal and electrical engineering industry, Germany’s equivalent of Make UK. He is also chairman of Ceemet, the council of European employers in the metals, engineering and technology industries, the Continent-wide umbrella body for the likes of Make UK and Gesamtmetall. The Ceemet chair was occupied previously by Terry Scuoler, 69, the former chief executive of Make UK.
Ceemet, Gesamtmetall and Make UK speak with one voice on what they want and need from Brexit: the highest levels of cross-border access that can be achieved only by the highest level of regulatory alignment. That is, not Boris Johnson’s stated position of a trade agreement in which Britain adopts its own regulatory framework that may be more aligned with, say, the US. That, it is argued, will not achieve the frictionless trade that Europe’s manufacturers need with Britain.
“After 45 years of integration, disintegration cannot be a possibility,” Mr Zander said. “You will have massive disruption and no investment on both sides.
“We have a strong industry cluster in Europe. All the parts of a car engine, for instance, come from all over Europe, from eastern Europe and from the UK and so on. We need the industry cluster with the UK.
“If we have an old-fashioned border between the UK and the EU, the UK will no longer be part of that European industrial cluster. It will be the end. We need to maintain this strong European industrial cluster. My fear is that without the UK in this industry cluster, all sides will be weakened.”
Two totemic examples of this are Airbus, in which British facilities design and build wings for the aerospace manufacturer’s aircraft, and BMW, which makes engines in Britain for cars that are assembled in Germany.
What is the worry for Europe when these plants simply could migrate to or be repatriated back into mainland Europe? Outside of the huge cost of building new facilities to absorb this and just how long it would take, Mr Zander believes that such a scenario would jettison the highly skilled workforces and high standards of manufacturing that exisit in the UK. For the likes of an Airbus or a BMW, such disruption would put them at an immediate disadvantage to their American and Chinese competitors.
As a German, Britain’s departure from the single market is as unthinkable as Bavaria declaring independence from Germany. “Who,” he said, “would think that is a good development?” Of Britons’ complaints about Brussels’ regulatory interference in British business, he said that German companies had the same complaints but saw the benefits of the single market as outweighing that.
Ceemet, alongside Make UK, sees its role as being “in the next room” during Britain’s negotiations to secede from the European Union, to remind all those involved of the impacts of a break-up of the single market.
“The single market is the strength for the 500 million people of the EU,” Mr Zander said. “We are against every development that is against the single market. We have to collaborate to the highest standard with the UK, whether it is in the EU or not. There is no alternative to not working together.”
Brexit will put industry on the continent in a weaker position as well as here, manufacturing chiefs warn
Robert Lea, Industrial Editor
December 9 2019, 12:01am, The Times
Manufacturers including Airbus and BMW have key facilities in Britain and it would be hugely expensive to replace themMATT CARDY/GETTY IMAGES
Share
Save
None. A shrug of the shoulders. A shake of the head. That’s the answer from the head of Europe’s confederation of engineering and manufacturing companies when asked to give reasons why, at the moment, industrial businesses from the Continent would invest in Britain.
Oliver Zander is in London not to comment on the stasis in British industry, nor to seek to overturn the result of the European referendum (though he strongly believes that the best solution to Brexit is not to do it at all). He is in town to stand square behind Make UK, the manufacturing trade body, in making the best case for the best Brexit possible.
His position is straightforward. Europe is a strong industrial cluster of businesses and sectors in global competition with the United States and China and the Far East. Britain is a strong part of that cluster, fully integrated into a Europe-wide supply chain. If the UK is to leave that, then the UK will be weakened — and, crucially from the European perspective, the EU will be weakened, too. Put plainly, Brexit is as bad for European industry as it is for British industry.
The BMW group plant near Oxford. BMW makes engines in Britain for cars assembled in GermanyTOLGA AKMEN/AFP/GETTY IMAGES
The position of Make UK, the rebranded EEF or Engineering Employers’ Federation, is well trodden. One of the loudest campaigners to remain in the EU, it has reported that since the referendum three and a half years ago 125,000 jobs have been or will be lost in manufacturing companies in this country: think the big redundancy programmes at Jaguar Land Rover, Honda, Ford, Rolls-Royce aerospace and the steel industry.
A Make UK fact sheet would tell you that British manufacturers export £270 billion of goods a year, of which about half is trade with the EU. More than half of that EU trade is not in finished goods, such as a Nissan car from the production line in Sunderland, but in manufactured components and subsystems bound for European supply chains into which they are fully integrated. Indeed, a quarter of Britain’s 300,000 manufacturing businesses are inextricably entwined in the single market and purposely have become a specialist part of that integrated supply chain. For these companies, the politician who tells them that they can stop selling their goods to France and can trade instead with South Korea is a fool.
Mr Zander, 51, is director-general of Gesamtmetall, the federation of German employers in the metal and electrical engineering industry, Germany’s equivalent of Make UK. He is also chairman of Ceemet, the council of European employers in the metals, engineering and technology industries, the Continent-wide umbrella body for the likes of Make UK and Gesamtmetall. The Ceemet chair was occupied previously by Terry Scuoler, 69, the former chief executive of Make UK.
Ceemet, Gesamtmetall and Make UK speak with one voice on what they want and need from Brexit: the highest levels of cross-border access that can be achieved only by the highest level of regulatory alignment. That is, not Boris Johnson’s stated position of a trade agreement in which Britain adopts its own regulatory framework that may be more aligned with, say, the US. That, it is argued, will not achieve the frictionless trade that Europe’s manufacturers need with Britain.
“After 45 years of integration, disintegration cannot be a possibility,” Mr Zander said. “You will have massive disruption and no investment on both sides.
“We have a strong industry cluster in Europe. All the parts of a car engine, for instance, come from all over Europe, from eastern Europe and from the UK and so on. We need the industry cluster with the UK.
“If we have an old-fashioned border between the UK and the EU, the UK will no longer be part of that European industrial cluster. It will be the end. We need to maintain this strong European industrial cluster. My fear is that without the UK in this industry cluster, all sides will be weakened.”
Two totemic examples of this are Airbus, in which British facilities design and build wings for the aerospace manufacturer’s aircraft, and BMW, which makes engines in Britain for cars that are assembled in Germany.
What is the worry for Europe when these plants simply could migrate to or be repatriated back into mainland Europe? Outside of the huge cost of building new facilities to absorb this and just how long it would take, Mr Zander believes that such a scenario would jettison the highly skilled workforces and high standards of manufacturing that exisit in the UK. For the likes of an Airbus or a BMW, such disruption would put them at an immediate disadvantage to their American and Chinese competitors.
As a German, Britain’s departure from the single market is as unthinkable as Bavaria declaring independence from Germany. “Who,” he said, “would think that is a good development?” Of Britons’ complaints about Brussels’ regulatory interference in British business, he said that German companies had the same complaints but saw the benefits of the single market as outweighing that.
Ceemet, alongside Make UK, sees its role as being “in the next room” during Britain’s negotiations to secede from the European Union, to remind all those involved of the impacts of a break-up of the single market.
“The single market is the strength for the 500 million people of the EU,” Mr Zander said. “We are against every development that is against the single market. We have to collaborate to the highest standard with the UK, whether it is in the EU or not. There is no alternative to not working together.”
Strungup52
Member
Saw elsewhere that the German Party in coalition (?) with Mrs Merkel, recently having a pair of new leaders foisted on it, are subject to the ‘Momentum’ disease.
One of the leaders of this German Momentum movement is calling for the effective nationalisation of BMW among other significant companies.
How would something like that affect Britain’s BMW operation if Boris is successful on Thursday?
Or if he isn’t?
Discuss?
One of the leaders of this German Momentum movement is calling for the effective nationalisation of BMW among other significant companies.
How would something like that affect Britain’s BMW operation if Boris is successful on Thursday?
Or if he isn’t?
Discuss?
Courier
Member
- Location
- M62 - M1 - M18 triangle
“You can’t eat a flag, Phoebe.”
Last edited:
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Just published in The Times
MRP ELECTION SURVEY
The new parliament?
YouGov’s constituency-level survey expects a 28 seat majority on December 12
Source: YouGov MRP polling, The Times
MRP ELECTION SURVEY
The new parliament?
YouGov’s constituency-level survey expects a 28 seat majority on December 12
| Party | 2017 | 2019 | Vote share |
|---|---|---|---|
| Conservative | 317 317 | 339 339 | 43% |
| Labour | 262 262 | 231 231 | 34% |
| Lib Dem | 12 12 | 15 15 | 12% |
| Brexit party | 0 0 | 0 0 | 3% |
| Green | 1 1 | 1 1 | 3% |
| SNP | 35 35 | 41 41 | 3% |
| Plaid Cymru | 4 4 | 4 4 | 1% |
| Other | 1 1 | 1 1 | 2% |
Source: YouGov MRP polling, The Times