Graduated driving licences...

[Danllan]

Not a happy story at bottom, a woman lost her son with three other boys and is now campaigning for graduated driving licences. Of course one can understand her anguish, and some changes do seem reasonable, but...

Among other things, the idea of not being able to carry passengers until 25 years old is barking... firstly, what if the driver gets his licence at 24 years and six months? That would mean just six months driving experience compared to someone who passed his test at seventeen with eight years experience. And what if a fellow gets married at twenty, and then has a child a couple of years later? He couldn't carry his wife and child!

This isn't party political by any means, but it is something that could affect all our families, so, any thoughts?

'No-one expects to wave their son off and not see them again'

Crystal Owen calls for tighter rules for young drivers after her son drowned following a crash in Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[essex man]

Not a happy story at bottom, a woman lost her son with three other boys and is now campaigning for graduated driving licences. Of course one can understand her anguish, and some changes do seem reasonable, but...

Among other things, the idea of not being able to carry passengers until 25 years old is barking... firstly, what if the driver gets his licence at 24 years and six months? That would mean just six months driving experience compared to someone who passed his test at seventeen with eight years experience. And what if a fellow gets married at twenty, and then has a child a couple of years later? He couldn't carry his wife and child!

This isn't party political by any means, but it is something that could affect all our families, so, any thoughts?

'No-one expects to wave their son off and not see them again'

Crystal Owen calls for tighter rules for young drivers after her son drowned following a crash in Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

The demographics mean old people restricting young people is possible.
Old people losing their licenses is not allowed though....
Judging by friends of my parents, you stop driving for old age reasons when you have a bad enough crash
Someone i know was first on scene at this

Colchester: Driver, 87, spoken to by police days before teen death crash tragedy

AN 87-year-old motorist involved in an accident in which a teenager later died was spoken to by police following an incident in a supermarket car…

www.eadt.co.uk

The incident referred to a week before was police called to tesco because the old guy was repeatedly crashing pumps at petrol station.
Police just got him to follow them home, no follow up, a week later he just drives off the road into a young girl.

 

[Danllan]

The demographics mean old people restricting young people is possible.
Old people losing their licenses is not allowed though....
Judging by friends of my parents, you stop driving for old age reasons when you have a bad enough crash
Someone i know was first on scene at this

Colchester: Driver, 87, spoken to by police days before teen death crash tragedy

AN 87-year-old motorist involved in an accident in which a teenager later died was spoken to by police following an incident in a supermarket car…

www.eadt.co.uk

The incident referred to a week before was police called to tesco because the old guy was repeatedly crashing pumps at petrol station.
Police just got him to follow them home, no follow up, a week later he just drives off the road into a young girl.

I've been involved in many cases involving a geriatric driver (both sides); every single time it was the same, someone who could not react sufficiently quickly to everyday things had been in charge of a vehicle.

One instance was an old sh!t - and he really, really was a sh!t - who entirely unnecessarily decided to overtake the car in front of him a couple of hundred yard before a roundabout. He didn't indicate, just crossed to the other lane right in front of a motorcyclist. The biker died at the scene.

This old c^nt in his early 80s, who we were defending, didn't even acknowledge that he'd done something wrong. He claimed the biker was speeding, which he wasn't; he claimed that the driver in front of him had braked, so he had to change lane to avoid a crash, this was also untrue. Fortunately he was convicted and imprisoned, I hope the sh!t died in gaol.

Personally... I've been running and nearly been hit by geriatrics several times. And, a few years ago, one fellow from a few villages away clipped my oldest boy on a lane that was easily wide enough to pass him with a yard to spare. He didn't stop. The boy came off and it was pure luck there was no car behind to go over him. I was cycling about a hundred yards behind and was scared silly until I established there was nothing serious. Fortunately a neighbour was driving behind me and had witnessed it too...

I was livid and went straight over to the old sod and told him very politely that if I ever saw him driving again I'd privately prosecute him, his Mrs was in tears. The old git claimed he hadn't even noticed (perhaps he hadn't!) and tried to brush it away. By luck, as I was talking to him, one of his sons arrived, I explained the situation to him and, to be fair, the son there and then tore a massive strip off the old bloke - since it had happened before - and as far as I know there has been no more driving by his father.

I'll admit you've touched a nerve with this one...

(Thinking on that last bit, I've just asked Mrs Danllan, and apparently that was six years ago... )

 

[Exfarmer]

Know a pensioner locally , his family made him give up his licence, but it did not stop him driving. Thankfully as far as i know has not had an accident but horrible to think no licence = no ninsurance

 

[Danllan]

Know a pensioner locally , his family made him give up his licence, but it did not stop him driving. Thankfully as far as i know has not had an accident but horrible to think no licence = no ninsurance

They must have had good reason to believe he wasn't safe driving; the b*stard should be reported straight away; if he kills a kid tomorrow you'll quite rightly not forgive yourself for failing to do so.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Among other things, the idea of not being able to carry passengers until 25 years old is barking... firstly, what if the driver gets his licence at 24 years and six months? That would mean just six months driving experience compared to someone who passed his test at seventeen with eight years experience. And what if a fellow gets married at twenty, and then has a child a couple of years later? He couldn't carry his wife and child!

Totally barking. If she'd had to live under the system she's now demanding be imposed on others then she wouldn't have been able to have her own son as a passenger in her car till he was 3 years old (she was reported as being 39 at the time of her 17 year old son's death).

 

[essex man]

Totally barking. If she'd had to live under the system she's now demanding be imposed on others then she wouldn't have been able to have her own son as a passenger in her car till he was 3 years old (she was reported as being 39 at the time of her 17 year old son's death).

Yes, but that is typical of how the demographics work, old people don't care, she had her ability to drive when she was younger...
Swap in ....ability to buy house
Ability to go out and enjoy life and not be needlessly locked down
Not be taxed to the hilt to pay for pensions and care for a huge number of sick and old people..

And so on

 

[Swarfmonkey]

I've no idea if she doesn't care, or simply hasn't the intellectual capability to understand the serious ramifications of what she's demanding.

 

[br jones]

Poor lady has lost her son ,so cut her a bit of slack

 

[Charlie Gill]

The NZ system allows for drivers to have their children, partners and parents in the car during the restricted period.

 

[linga]

The NZ system allows for drivers to have their children, partners and parents in the car during the restricted period.

Surely if you are fit and capable enough to have your family in the car you are fit and capable enough to have unrelated passengers in your car.

 

[Exfarmer]

Surely if you are fit and capable enough to have your family in the car you are fit and capable enough to have unrelated passengers in your car.

The problem comes with young men who are taking matess out often with a bit of pop, and driving a heavily loaded small car which then handles very different, add in some wet road and a disaster is not far away. I think a lot of us have had some very close scrapes in our younger days!

 

[linga]

The problem comes with young men who are taking matess out often with a bit of pop, and driving a heavily loaded small car which then handles very different, add in some wet road and a disaster is not far away. I think a lot of us have had some very close scrapes in our younger days!

Yes

 

[manhill]

Driverless cars are the future. Hope they're available to take me fishing soon.

 

[le bon paysan]

Not a happy story at bottom, a woman lost her son with three other boys and is now campaigning for graduated driving licences. Of course one can understand her anguish, and some changes do seem reasonable, but...

Among other things, the idea of not being able to carry passengers until 25 years old is barking... firstly, what if the driver gets his licence at 24 years and six months? That would mean just six months driving experience compared to someone who passed his test at seventeen with eight years experience. And what if a fellow gets married at twenty, and then has a child a couple of years later? He couldn't carry his wife and child!

This isn't party political by any means, but it is something that could affect all our families, so, any thoughts?

'No-one expects to wave their son off and not see them again'

Crystal Owen calls for tighter rules for young drivers after her son drowned following a crash in Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

How it's done here
My eldest learned to drive on this accompanied program. Designated senior driver to accompany, not just anyone.
Had an A on her car for 2 years. Gets discounted car insurance because of qualifying by this route, €33pm for a petrol Saxo. My youngest just had lessons with an Instructor only, she has to have the A on her car for 3 years. Also her insurance is more doesn't get the discount. €45pm for the Saxo which her sister passed on.
Zero alcohol limit while an A on the car.
All drivers have to have a minimum 20 lessons with a driving instructor. Including 2 hours on the Motorway.
Can only drive unaccompanied from the age of 18.
For the accompanied scheme
The learner is required to complete a minimum of 3,000km with the accompanied driver within a year, or 1,000km within three months for those who are keen to get on with it! There is a consultation with the driving school instructor half way through and at the end

Driving licenses: early learning (AAC) from 15 years of age

Early Learning to Drive (AAFC) is a driving formula that is accompanied from the age of 15 to prepare for the practical test of license B.

www.service-public.fr

 

[Danllan]

How it's done here
My eldest learned to drive on this accompanied program. Designated senior driver to accompany, not just anyone.
Had an A on her car for 2 years. Gets discounted car insurance because of qualifying by this route, €33pm for a petrol Saxo. My youngest just had lessons with an Instructor only, she has to have the A on her car for 3 years. Also her insurance is more doesn't get the discount. €45pm for the Saxo which her sister passed on.
Zero alcohol limit while an A on the car.
All drivers have to have a minimum 20 lessons with a driving instructor. Including 2 hours on the Motorway.
Can only drive unaccompanied from the age of 18.
For the accompanied scheme
The learner is required to complete a minimum of 3,000km with the accompanied driver within a year, or 1,000km within three months for those who are keen to get on with it! There is a consultation with the driving school instructor half way through and at the end

Driving licenses: early learning (AAC) from 15 years of age

Early Learning to Drive (AAFC) is a driving formula that is accompanied from the age of 15 to prepare for the practical test of license B.

www.service-public.fr

I wouldn't go for all that, but I think it sounds generally alright, and I wouldn't argue if it was already in place. I can see room for improvement in our system, but the limitiation suggested on passengers us barking.

Speed limits, trackers, zero tolerance on alcohol etc., time limitations, having to be accompanied, all these make sense - but the passenger thing just isn't rational.

 

[br jones]

Driverless cars are the future. Hope they're available to take me fishing soon.

Driverless car rollout paused in California after fire and crashes​

Waymo accused of failing to engage with public safety concerns

Matthew Field22 February 2024 • 11:48am

Related Topics

• Driverless cars,
• San Francisco,
• Google,
• Alphabet

48

Waymo's self-driving car tests have created friction with San Francisco locals CREDIT: Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
California has blocked a Google-backed driverless car company from expanding to more cities after a series of accidents.
The California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) has suspended a request by Waymo, which is owned by Google’s parent company, to launch its robotaxi business in more cities within the state.
Vehicles from Waymo and Cruise, a rival, have been operating in San Francisco for years. Waymo had been seeking permission to expand to Los Angeles and the wider San Francisco peninsula.
However, David Canepa, a local politician in San Mateo County, California, said its application had been paused because of what he claimed was Waymo’s failure to engage in “meaningful” discussion about “our very real public safety concerns”.
It follows public opposition to driverless cars and a string of accidents.
Advertisement


Waymo recently admitted that two of its cars had crashed into a pick-up truck that was being towed because of a fault in its software. The company is also under investigation for a collision between a self-driving car and a cyclist, which caused minor injuries, on February 6.
The company said the cyclist was obscured from view by a truck and its car was “not able to avoid” the collision.
In October, Waymo rival Cruise paused all driverless operations after a serious crash left a woman trapped under the wheel of one of its vehicles.
Aside from accidents, driverless cars have been blamed by locals for causing traffic jams with apparently erratic driving and braking.

Protesters have taken to placing traffic cones on the bonnets of the vehicles to confuse their self-driving sensors. In one case, a Waymo taxi was set on fire in San Francisco’s Chinatown district.

Mr Canepa told TechCrunch: “Since Waymo has stalled any meaningful discussions on its expansion plans into Silicon Valley, the CPUC has put the brakes on its application to test a robotaxi service virtually unfettered in both San Mateo and Los Angeles counties.

”This will provide the opportunity to fully engage the autonomous vehicle maker on our very real public safety concerns that have caused all kinds of dangerous situations for firefighters and police in neighbouring San Francisco.”

Waymo’s request will now be subject to a fresh review and any expansion put on hold until at least June. Waymo said the decision was “procedural” and part of the regulator’s “robust review process”.
Related Topics

• Driverless cars,
• San Francisco,
• Google,
• Alphabet

48
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[Boomerang]

I've been involved in many cases involving a geriatric driver (both sides); every single time it was the same, someone who could not react sufficiently quickly to everyday things had been in charge of a vehicle.

One instance was an old sh!t - and he really, really was a sh!t - who entirely unnecessarily decided to overtake the car in front of him a couple of hundred yard before a roundabout. He didn't indicate, just crossed to the other lane right in front of a motorcyclist. The biker died at the scene.

This old c^nt in his early 80s, who we were defending, didn't even acknowledge that he'd done something wrong. He claimed the biker was speeding, which he wasn't; he claimed that the driver in front of him had braked, so he had to change lane to avoid a crash, this was also untrue. Fortunately he was convicted and imprisoned, I hope the sh!t died in gaol.

Personally... I've been running and nearly been hit by geriatrics several times. And, a few years ago, one fellow from a few villages away clipped my oldest boy on a lane that was easily wide enough to pass him with a yard to spare. He didn't stop. The boy came off and it was pure luck there was no car behind to go over him. I was cycling about a hundred yards behind and was scared silly until I established there was nothing serious. Fortunately a neighbour was driving behind me and had witnessed it too...

I was livid and went straight over to the old sod and told him very politely that if I ever saw him driving again I'd privately prosecute him, his Mrs was in tears. The old git claimed he hadn't even noticed (perhaps he hadn't!) and tried to brush it away. By luck, as I was talking to him, one of his sons arrived, I explained the situation to him and, to be fair, the son there and then tore a massive strip off the old bloke - since it had happened before - and as far as I know there has been no more driving by his father.

I'll admit you've touched a nerve with this one...

(Thinking on that last bit, I've just asked Mrs Danllan, and apparently that was six years ago... )

Age is not a definitive reason for bad driving.
I know two guys one is 59 but may as well be 70 and the other is 61 going on 41
,not all peoples ability or suitability to drive can be defined by age .
The driving standards are generally poor.
Timid drivers , aggressive, selfish, indicators not used , all contribute to poor road safety .

 

[Danllan]

Age is not a definitive reason for bad driving.
I know two guys one is 59 but may as well be 70 and the other is 61 going on 41
,not all peoples ability or suitability to drive can be defined by age .
The driving standards are generally poor.
Timid drivers , aggressive, selfish, indicators not used , all contribute to poor road safety .

Regarding age, you are correct to a point and nobody has claimed it to be otherwise; but only a fool would claim that reflexes etc. do anything other than deteriorate from middle-age, or that the vast majority of people do not register a faster decline with age.

Of course there will be exceptions, but the reality is that the likelihood of an 80 year old being fit for driving is not high. The other poor characteristics you list are all true enough, but they are irrelevant as to whether or not age is a negative factor; it is irrational to add the additional problem of advanced senility to them.

 

[le bon paysan]

I wouldn't go for all that, but I think it sounds generally alright, and I wouldn't argue if it was already in place. I can see room for improvement in our system, but the limitiation suggested on passengers us barking.

Speed limits, trackers, zero tolerance on alcohol etc., time limitations, having to be accompanied, all these make sense - but the passenger thing just isn't rational.

Don't know about "all that" . There is the choice of 2 ways of getting your licence. It cut deaths among young drivers and that has to be a good thing.
A lot of countries have a minimum number of lessons to get your licence.
RAC say the average number of lessons taken to pass the test is 45 in the uk.