The trouble is that TB in badgers is spreading, ever outwards at around 10 miles a year it is said. I think that's what he means when he says "give it time".
Have some of that Chris Packham
- Thread starter Yosemite Sam
- Start date
- Location
- Lincolnshire
We don't do ourselves any favours by moving infected cattle into clean areas though do we? Presently been downgraded to radial TB1 here due to infected cattle being moved in to area. How do they pass the premovement test?
I think we could do a lot more as an industry. Mart wash down facilites are a joke as far as biosecurity is concerned. Spray all the manure about with water so it gets to everybody else's trailers and they take it home with them and no biocide or disinfectant whatsoever. It's a farce in my view.
A bit of thought and more careful controls would help.
I think we could do a lot more as an industry. Mart wash down facilites are a joke as far as biosecurity is concerned. Spray all the manure about with water so it gets to everybody else's trailers and they take it home with them and no biocide or disinfectant whatsoever. It's a farce in my view.
A bit of thought and more careful controls would help.
Paddington
Member
- Location
- Soggy Shropshire
Think I used to be the only person at the mart who asked for a vehicle cleansing form and washed out at home for this reason.
Can TB be spread by washing out badly? Not an expert but I thought cattle in the early stages of infection wouldn't be shedding TB that way?
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I don't know. But many markets accept cattle for slaughter from TB1 areas without premovement testing. I feel there would actually be less risk of me taking a disease home if I didn't use the wash bay. Johnnes and BVD are highly infectious through manure.
Back trailer up to unloading ramp. My cattle exit, leaving their manure in my trailer. Shut door, take their manure back home to where it came from. If you are a haulage contractor then its a different matter.
Or back into the washbay where everybody else has washed out but not disinfected. Pick up Gods knows what. Spray my manure about. Walk my boots through where dozens of others have walked. No disinfectant, drive it home back into my yard. It might look clean but its not sterilised and there is a big risk of cross contamination IMO.
Its all a bit medieval as far as I can see, though maybe somebody who knows more than I do can provide some reassurance. If I was a serious cattle breeder I don't think Id be using any mart or going to a show, sadly.
I think biosecurity on farms needs a serious looking at as well. Myself included. I work within present regulations but we could all do better. Cattle and sheep seem to lag along way behind the pig and poultry sectors from what I have seen.
The perturbation effect was observed in the randomised badger cull, it is customary for 'environmentalists' to cite this effect, while ignoring the 1827 traps that were stolen by bio-terrorists and their contents donated to farmers outside the trial areas:
From Parliamentary Questions:
8 Dec 2003: Column 218W
Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in how many cases badger traps laid by or on behalf of the Department in TB culling trials have been interfered with or removed without authorisation. [141971]
Mr. Bradshaw: Interference with badger traps laid in the Randomised Badger Culling Trial is variable between operations. It is usually quite geographically localised and repetitive within a culling operational area. Management records indicate that—over 116 culling operations, across 19 trial areas, between December 1998 and 10 October 2003, during which 15,666 traps were sited—there were 8,981 individual occasions where a trap was interfered with, and 1,827 individual occasions when a trap was removed.
You sure seem to know a lot about stuff don't you, with a clear finger pointing at those nasty farmers moving infected cattle?
(which certainly occasionally happens, although it's a bit mean to blame the farmers seeing as they're testing in the proscribed manner)
Don't camelids move it around then?
Little or no compulsory testing/passports/tags, but live with TB for years, in their lungs, hacking it up and gobbing it around.
Then there's wildlife which seems to have been given a 'lift', before being released.
At least there's a record of cattle movements.
Ridding the UK of bovine TB will never happen until all transmission routes are addressed, and blinkered farmer hating rhetoric isn't going to help.
- Location
- Nottinghamshire
It should be that when yearly testing cattle takes place, badger setts on holding done at same time and cull badgers if tb positive...along with cattle.
As for Market biosecurity there is nothing to stop us taking our own disinfectant in a sprayer and doing wheels, boots, trailer.
As for Market biosecurity there is nothing to stop us taking our own disinfectant in a sprayer and doing wheels, boots, trailer.
Fallowfield
Member
1. If the perturbation effect is a myth then it's a myth that Nigel Gibbens buys into.
2. Of the 1827 traps that were removed how many contained badgers that were moved out of the trial area?
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
when there was a gas pipeline being built across south wales, the fellow working for the Welsh Assembly Government, told me, he could see the cases of TB move with the gas pipeline across the country, this was as the contractors dug in the pipe, this disturbed the badgers and they moved areas carrying TB with them.
exactly the same happened with a bypass locally
How many do you consider acceptable?
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
Yeah right! So you haven't got either yet then. When the infected badgers get to your area, look out, because herds with no contact with each other, isolated from all other sources of infection, will fall to the disease one after the other.
As it is, with no infected badgers yet, rest easy with a clear conscience that "I'm alright Jack" and that "it's the other farmer's fault" like a bloody condescending ostrich burying your head deep in the sand not wanting to know what's really happening around it.
1, Its a myth that was disproved by statistical analysis
2. Why don't you tell us?? The fact is that no one knows but it was far too many
RCBS was a well documented trial which showed how not to cull badgers
rubbish
Fallowfield
Member
No it is not
Do some reading and you will understand why
It seems to be generally accepted by the scientific experts that culling results in social perturbation among badgers which results in the size of the infected area increasing.
I can't speak for what Old Seth down the Dock and Duck has to say about the matter once he's had a few Merrydowns.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
Its not as if badger culls have not been tried before and very very nearly eradicated the disease in the UK, as indeed it has done in other countries. Ignore all of that why don't you? Oh! You have ignored iota course. Silly me.
Peturbation was mooted in Krebs report - subsequent research showed it to be of short term effect.
RCBS showed that minimal cullling effort produced minimal results - as old Seth probably pointed out beforehand