I'll be expecting payment from @Tim W 🤣
In, truth it was the only clean one I could lay my hands on😃

Yes, wasn't too disappointed with the overall slant of their piece. Wasn't a general meat bashing thing, and seemed to highlight it's consumer "pound in your pocket" that drives this.
Was a bit concerned what I was getting involved in!

On the plus side, Tom Clarke, the science editor who did the piece, said he was keen to come back and do a more general piece on regenerative farming 🙂
When I said to him "I genuinely believe the anti meat drive will be detrimental to the battle against climate change" he said "ooh, I wish you'd say that on camera!"
So do I. Not enough people are saying it.
 

onesiedale

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Happy critters 🥰View attachment 9233776 shifts today, about ⅓ha all up

Hard to know what to do, really. Could race them around faster or slow them down even more. So I'm just working off density rather than anything else 🤷‍♂️
Trouble is Pete, another 3 weeks and that grass is surely going to bolt to head.
Keep the pictures coming because it's these 3-4 weeks leading up to mid-summers day that we all struggle to control. We're watching closely :pompous:
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Trouble is Pete, another 3 weeks and that grass is surely going to bolt to head.
Keep the pictures coming because it's these 3-4 weeks leading up to mid-summers day that we all struggle to control. We're watching closely :pompous:
Spot on - it's great having a decent group to bounce ideas off - that's why I'm trying the "density focus" this spring, the final frontier of grazing management if you like.

We tried the residual focus for long enough, and that doesn't do much. Last year we got the grazing charts going and put the focus on recovery times - better than grass measuring, but I am hoping that maintaining density and then bouncing the plant recovery time off that will be better still.

Obviously we don't have quality concerns as these cattle are well adapted, if quality is an issue then we have plenty of tools "in the box"... including getting bigger older cattle to mop it up. But I really want the seed this year, it appears at this stage that we will have the moisture so there will be feed.

Not entirely sure of the weight of the mob, but they're getting about 450m² at a time, so multiply what you reckon they average by 48 head, times 22 shifts per ha and that's the stock density we're running.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Trouble is Pete, another 3 weeks and that grass is surely going to bolt to head.
Keep the pictures coming because it's these 3-4 weeks leading up to mid-summers day that we all struggle to control. We're watching closely :pompous:
You'll find this interesting then
20201127_122904.jpg

My neighbours' - paddocks... far right has been shut up for baleage, they cut the same 50ac every year. The one in front, I grazed with the mob a few weeks ago then left a bull in.
20201127_122920.jpg
20201127_124039.jpg
This little ½ac paddock I grazed for an afternoon last time the cattle were in the paddock they're in now, but he's so hard to deal with I'm not bothering anymore, he can mulch his grass or do what he likes.
Wife is lovely, he's a tosser. So I just graze the verges.

What all this driving round and "observing" shows, is that grass really gets serious about seed formation/flowering when you keep hurting it - like Andy's perennial hay paddocks, or Alex's ones which haven't had careful grazing management.

One high-density grazing is better than none, but it probably is one of those compounding/cascading things where it keeps getting better the more you do it.
Screenshot_20201127-124617_Gallery.jpg

Like you, I'm really keen to see what we can do with this.
 
Last edited:

onesiedale

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Spot on - it's great having a decent group to bounce ideas off - that's why I'm trying the "density focus" this spring, the final frontier of grazing management if you like.

We tried the residual focus for long enough, and that doesn't do much. Last year we got the grazing charts going and put the focus on recovery times - better than grass measuring, but I am hoping that maintaining density and then bouncing the plant recovery time off that will be better still.

Obviously we don't have quality concerns as these cattle are well adapted, if quality is an issue then we have plenty of tools "in the box"... including getting bigger older cattle to mop it up. But I really want the seed this year, it appears at this stage that we will have the moisture so there will be feed.

Not entirely sure of the weight of the mob, but they're getting about 450m² at a time, so multiply what you reckon they average by 48 head, times 22 shifts per ha and that's the stock density we're running.
So, for the maths;
450m² for 48 beasts is say 9.3m²/beast.
Weight of beast say 350kg
Therefore 37.6kg/m²
= 376,000kg/ha
or 152,000kg/acre
👌
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
So, for the maths;
450m² for 48 beasts is say 9.3m²/beast.
Weight of beast say 350kg
Therefore 37.6kg/m²
= 376,000kg/ha
or 152,000kg/acre
👌
Yes, that would be about exactly what my guesstimate says (y)
Imagine when we have our techno set up and never need to drop under 200,000kg/ha, I wish these lambs would hurry up and get fat 👍🤣😭
 

Rob Garrett

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Derbyshire UK
Spot on - it's great having a decent group to bounce ideas off - that's why I'm trying the "density focus" this spring, the final frontier of grazing management if you like.

We tried the residual focus for long enough, and that doesn't do much. Last year we got the grazing charts going and put the focus on recovery times - better than grass measuring, but I am hoping that maintaining density and then bouncing the plant recovery time off that will be better still.

Obviously we don't have quality concerns as these cattle are well adapted, if quality is an issue then we have plenty of tools "in the box"... including getting bigger older cattle to mop it up. But I really want the seed this year, it appears at this stage that we will have the moisture so there will be feed.

Not entirely sure of the weight of the mob, but they're getting about 450m² at a time, so multiply what you reckon they average by 48 head, times 22 shifts per ha and that's the stock density we're running.
What sort of recovery/rest time before next graze are you thinking? Would you be putting lambs on it to finish them?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
What sort of recovery/rest time before next graze are you thinking? Would you be putting lambs on it to finish them?
Maybe, not too sure as the sheep mob are kinda on better "sheep tucker" where they are.
20201127_190419.jpg

Then they are going here
20201127_190827.jpg

then here
20201127_190817.jpg

... at around 30 days
The moo mob are probably looking at 45 days but I may just jump onto a 60- day job and keep doing that.
I think it will be way too strong for lambs in 6 weeks if it is looking like this in 4 weeks
20201127_172857.jpg

- but cattle will mash it down OK. As said, another 150-200 calves would be good!
 
Trouble is Pete, another 3 weeks and that grass is surely going to bolt to head.
Keep the pictures coming because it's these 3-4 weeks leading up to mid-summers day that we all struggle to control. We're watching closely :pompous:
Surely that's one of the advantages of this system? You can always control and reset any topgrowth with high density impact. Or maybe just go round faster to catch the green before it goes. Alternatively, save some of the quality by taking a cut, but obviously that involves machinery and expense. It's what most of us end up doing in the UK though.
 
Last edited:

onesiedale

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Surely that's one of the advantages of this system? You can always control and reset any topgrowth with high density impact. Or maybe just go round faster to catch the green before it goes. Alternatively, save some of the quality by taking a cut, but obviously that involves machinery and expense. It's what most of us end up doing in the UK though.
You're right. But it's the machinery and expense that we all want to ( got to) avoid.
How do we keep that grass in the growth phase? - pushing up green shoots and deep roots rather than stalks, seed heads and just creating litter beds.
As a dairy farmer, we've always been taught you must graze that leaf right down to allow green leaf to come back. I'm now thinking of what KP just said; all that's doing is causing stress, and what happens when your grass is stressed? Seed heads!
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Surely that's one of the advantages of this system? You can always control and reset any topgrowth with high density impact. Or maybe just go round faster to catch the green before it goes. Alternatively, save some of the quality by taking a cut, but obviously that involves machinery and expense. It's what most of us end up doing in the UK though.
I want to see what I can store on the landscape, it needs that big boost of energy/hydration I reckon. It's had a bit of a hammering lately 🤔
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
You're right. But it's the machinery and expense that we all want to ( got to) avoid.
How do we keep that grass in the growth phase? - pushing up green shoots and deep roots rather than stalks, seed heads and just creating litter beds.
As a dairy farmer, we've always been taught you must graze that leaf right down to allow green leaf to come back. I'm now thinking of what KP just said; all that's doing is causing stress, and what happens when your grass is stressed? Seed heads!
I think that maybe it doesn't want to be "kept on top of", what's the worst that can happen? We get too much grass and too many insects? 🤣
 

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