Is BPS actually good value for money?

[Hjcarter]

In Scotland removal of bps will lead to land abandonment. Tree planting and rewilding will become the land use of choice. Stock prices basically have to double to make these stock farms viable and I just don’t see that happening.

The way forwards is nuts, in South Ayrshire you've got to up your nut production by 150% remember.....

 

[bigw]

So are students, parents, pensioners.
Why not just give everybody a universal basic income and allow businesses to work a commercial basis without the distortions of state intervention?

Fair point, BPS definately would have helped with rural depopulation in the past but now the amount of people wanting to move to the country means there are very few rural properties empty. Loads of other sectors get access to public money but agriculture always get singled out for BPS payments.

 

[Hjcarter]

I’m pretty sure the big drinkers these days are middle aged professionals that have a bottle of wine most nights .
I know we drink a lot more at home than our parents did, and I think we personally drink more than our 20 something children and their partners, who often say no to a drink .

Jeepers, if I had 20 something children I'd need a drink!! Its got so many you can't remember how many you've got!!!

 

[Henarar]

What difference will ELMS make to Mr and Mrs Smith in Turnip Street? None whatsoever. They notice a few more untidy fields as they go about the country but that will be all. Public Goods baloney.
And does BPS keep food prices down? No. If there is a shortage of OSR, like now, prices rise and rise. They have nothing to do with BPS. It’s about supply and demand.

It depends if BPS removal will mean less supply ? if so then by your own admission prices will rise

 

[farmerm]

Yes , thinking about it your right . We had the 'kids' round for the weekend with their kids (some of them!) All they did was drink water !

Well thats a good thing... they will be less of a burden on the NHS so there will be something left in the pot to treat those in the generation above them (me) as I age

 

[Henarar]

Jeepers, if I had 20 something children I'd need a drink!! Its got so many you can't remember how many you've got!!!

Did you hear about the woman who had 20 kids and called them all Jack or Jac ?
she was asked what she does when she wants to call just one of them
That simple, she replied I just use their surname.

 

[digger64]

In Scotland removal of bps will lead to land abandonment. Tree planting and rewilding will become the land use of choice. Stock prices basically have to double to make these stock farms viable and I just don’t see that happening.

In England retaining bps leads to land abandonment etc etc
and stock/ crop prices have to basically double to pay the rent to compete with state financed land abandonment which means when having to compete with imported produce the industry is effectively a dead duck !

 

[Courier]

The way forwards is nuts, in South Ayrshire you've got to up your nut production by 150% remember.....

It takes up to eight years for a walnut tree to establish and bear fruit, longer to produce an economic crop (if ever) - Where does your income to pay the mortgage, rent or even living expenses come from in the meantime ?

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

I think that comment might have been tongue in cheek unless with global warming, Ayrshires climate has become like California's

 

[DRC]

What difference will ELMS make to Mr and Mrs Smith in Turnip Street? None whatsoever. They notice a few more untidy fields as they go about the country but that will be all. Public Goods baloney.
And does BPS keep food prices down? No. If there is a shortage of OSR, like now, prices rise and rise. They have nothing to do with BPS. It’s about supply and demand.

I was thinking ( dangerous I know), when driving along a stretch of the Shrewsbury bypass that had very high hedges either side . If we all let our roadside hedges get full height , there would soon be an uproar if drivers had no lovely view of the countryside .

 

[delilah]

What are the chances of that? Low I suspect.

Defra have said they are committed to co-design, ie listening to what farmers say. If you have a view on where ELMS money should be going, tell them. Contact details for the co-design team on here:
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/elms-co-design-submissions.339171/

 

[jondear]

I’m pretty sure the big drinkers these days are middle aged professionals that have a bottle of wine most nights .
I know we drink a lot more at home than our parents did, and I think we personally drink more than our 20 something children and their partners, who often say no to a drink .

Wine o'clock drinkers are the biggest .
Oh I only drink a glass or two every night! They say.

 

[Courier]

I think that comment might have been tongue in cheek unless with global warming, Ayrshires climate has become like California's

It might well have been a "Tongue in cheek" comment, but nevertheless it wouldn't surprise anyone intelligent if it became a basis for government policy !!

 

[Bossfarmer]

Supply and demand and prices will always find a level. At the moment we are paying people to produce and sell at below COP. This causes oversupply and in turn actually suppresses prices. Yes businesses will go to wall or have to change without support. That’s the reality of the commercial world but it won’t be as bad as people think.

yes your right about supply and demand but its not necessarily uk supply and demand more world, entire countries can become unviable in this situation as scale around the world is enormous, dont forget were a very small area and most of the small countries that can compete in world markets are well supported

 

[Bossfarmer]

It depends if BPS removal will mean less supply ? if so then by your own admission prices will rise

unless it comes from oz or ireland instead

 

[Henarar]

unless it comes from oz or ireland instead

don't matter if there is less there is less and the price goes up

 

[DrWazzock]

don't matter if there is less there is less and the price goes up

And don’t think we can take it for granted that cheap food imports will always be available. This is just a convenient assumption made by politicians with a greening agenda.
I still reckon if you are willing to work away steadily in farming you will be rewarded but might have to weather some peaks and troughs as always.

 

[Steevo]

Most peoples BPS will end back in the economy, farmers are very good at spending money when they get it.

Or before!

 

[Will Blackburn]

In Scotland removal of bps will lead to land abandonment. Tree planting and rewilding will become the land use of choice. Stock prices basically have to double to make these stock farms viable and I just don’t see that happening.

There’s no need for ELMS if they stop BPS!

 

[ollie989898]

BPS, ELMS, it is all a nonsense. Some farms justify environmental payments but certainly not all. Payments which result in huge sums of tax payer cash being given to people who are already wealthy is nuts.