Is there a margin in regen farming?

[spikeislander]

Please excuse the direct question.
But if you were given the chance to enter a contract share farming agreement on a block which would have to be regeneratively farmed, would there be a margin to be split , so as a contractor I would see a profit to pull on first charge after doing it for cost?
obviously variables, but there’s assistance from existing regen farmers , and possibly no rent to be charged to it either?
hopefully all the sfi options can be used on it?
basically would you do it ?
rent free is there a profit or do cover crops etc eat into it too much?
Thankyou sorry it’s vague but first step before I jump

 

[Clive]

well i only do it because it’s more profitable ……… on my farm

 

[spikeislander]

Ok that’s encouraging, please excuse my intrepidation I’ve had my fingers burnt , by starting on a regen route with others , but then had the amount I was able to do reduced , so no fert and limited chemicals half way through the year.
certainly didn’t cover costs although all losses were covered by agreement, I think this time it can be along the lines of proven systems , so I’m just wondering if this time it’s worth the risk?
it’s a chance to try it without using my land , and reduced risk I suppose as only operations from me.

 

[Clive]

i think only you can answer your question really

 

[som farmer]

we find moving that way profitable, mainly because you save a fortune on tillage, and we don't seem to be losing yield.

but l think its something where you have to have an open mind, its more of personal thing, you get back, what you put in.

if your 'opportunity' says to change to regen, day one, walk away. I think its something you try, like, and things evolve from there. You can see early results quite easily, but it takes time to 'prove' those early results are correct. We keep getting 'surprises' where un-expected.

best thing, no bloody rule book. So you can 'try' ideas, what works, and what doesn't. In real terms, if you think of it as plain sensible farming, using a rotation, you are well on the way.

its better than organic farming, ( tin hat on ), because the whole range of modern chemical farming, is there if you really need to use them, but usage declines. Glyphosate puts a whole new dimension to direct drilling, or min-til. Organic, means ploughing weeds/volunteers etc under.
Which degrades the soil biology, and regen looks to strengthen it.

good luck.

 

[db9go]

The first part OF ANY contract to look at is the EXCIT CLAUCE because if all goes OK know worries but if it goes wrong then you look at it

And be careful were the government are involved they have the ability of changing things because they make the rules

 

[MRT]

If you are share farming with exisiting regen farmers on/in thier enterprise then look at thier accounts? If they are making a healthy profit then maybe. If they are not then - not?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Will depend on the "regen farming", with most regen farms you wouldn't know if they didn't tell you, but they'll tell you
They're just farms with inputs to buy and commodities to give away to who wants it.

Other end of the scale, all profit, who needs a sharefarmer.

I would immediately assume the former, as above, what are the exit clauses like

 

[Nearly]

There's a bonus for the landowner if they are thinking long term. Heard of a contractor who gave up 900 acres because the landowner wanted to go regen. Not enough machinery passes in it for contractor to make money.

 

[ISCO]

There was a seminar on this at Groundswell last year which will probably be on YouTube by now.
As I recall on all of the metrics used conventional systems outperformed regen until machinery and labour costs were taken into account. When machinery and labour costs were included regen produced a better return.

 

[Henarar]

Yes you can leave a bit round the outside if you like

BTW what is regen farming ?

 

[The Gentleman Farmer]

Ok that’s encouraging, please excuse my intrepidation I’ve had my fingers burnt , by starting on a regen route with others , but then had the amount I was able to do reduced , so no fert and limited chemicals half way through the year.
certainly didn’t cover costs although all losses were covered by agreement, I think this time it can be along the lines of proven systems , so I’m just wondering if this time it’s worth the risk?
it’s a chance to try it without using my land , and reduced risk I suppose as only operations from me.

I think there is a massive misconception happening out there. Some people seem to be advocating regen as zero-input. It’s not organic, far from it. There was a good piece in the most recent Direct-Driller magazine about exactly this. A lot of people are going to come unstuck very rapidly if they go cold-turkey overnight.

 

[som farmer]

we are moving in the regen direction.

its simple to talk about, and simple to start. But you need to go slowly, economics and budgeting need to be worked out.

we like what results we get, made a very big difference to how we farm, but each step is measured, one could easily lose a lot of cash, if something went badly wrong. Thankfully nothing has -yet.

regen is very different to organic, it doesn't tie you down to a rule book, or inspections, and the whole 'tool box' of modern ag, is there to use if needed. We certainly use a lot less spray and fert, but sprays are useful when growing some corn.

it sets you on an alternative path, which can alter your way of thinking, most farmers of today, have been told to use X on this crop, Y on those cattle etc etc, by companies and reps, that rely on you, using their products, to earn their living. Unbiased ?

so far, we have found little difference in yields, big difference in costs, mainly tillage, the use of min-til and dd, has saved a lot of cost. Yet no-one is stopping the plough, it has its place.

what it has done, is put us on a path to self sufficiency, which will never completely happen, but at each step, money hasn't gone out, its saving money. The less that leaves the farm, the less you have to make, you can slow down the hamster wheel, and its great.

how far can we go ? I don't know, it will evolve its self, things that work, will continue, those that don't will go. And that's how it should happen, then the economics stack up.

SFI, we have herbal leys, we don't use pesticides, no objection to wild flowers, or nectar rich options on our least productive land, there are options that just help what we do anyway, and someone's going to pay us to do them !!!!!! Magic.

how long they will last, not long l suspect, but we will take what we can. I am certain that, as a country, food production will have to rise, events will see to that.

results tend to appear pretty quickly, if its right for you, and your farm. And its positive to see how minor tweaks work. But in essence, its a move back to pre chemical farming, rotations, building soil structure and fertility, things lost on the use of chemical farming. But, those same chemicals, are still there, if needed, a back-up plan ?

certainly its changing our lives, made us think about the future, and our plans have radically changed, over the next year or more, further changes will occur.