Lamb with scours

[Tommy_T]

I moved some ewes with lambs onto fresh pasture on Sunday. Today I have noticed just one lamb (just over 8 weeks old) with diarrhea. It's down his tail and back end, and whilst I was cleaning what I could with a tissue (I'll wash him down properly once I have a hand later) it started coming out of him again like water. There's no mucus or blood, just very runny poop. Checked the other lambs and all have clean bums. Have noticed the ewes poohs have gone pretty runny and I'm putting this down to the spring grass. Assume it is the same for the lamb? If so do I need to do anything extra for him?

 

[andybk]

nemo or cocci ? or both have you treated yet ?

 

[Longlowdog]

As above nemo/cocci make the perfect storm and can kill lambs for fun. Depending where you are in the country this could be the ideal time for both to strike. When I was hit by 'the perfect storm' the first thing I noticed after the dead lambs was that the others were crazy thirsty and would not leave the waterings. It comes on fast and can take lots from a group in short order.
Lots of folk allow lambs on to better pasture in front of ewes by using a creep gate, so unless you've recently fertilised, good grass shouldn't scour lambs.

 

[Tommy_T]

No I haven’t treated for either as yet.
No lambs were grazed on the field last year.
Just noticed this one lamb today. The ewes do tend to scour on fresh grass and I’ve had FECs done before when they’re like it with a negative result.
He doesn’t seem off in any other way. I’ll obviously monitor him closer now. Would a FEC show a result for these two things? (Sorry, pretty new to sheep so learning.) Saying that what with the current situation, bank holiday, and the fact my vets are pretty poor (in the process of trying to find a decent one) I doubt I’d get a timely result anyway.
If it’s nemotodirus it says use a group one white drench. What do you use for cocci?
I know it says about clean pasture and moving them around but there’s only so much space I have.
I thought the natural wetness of spring or fresh grass could cause scours? Why does putting lambs on before ewes change this?

 

[Longlowdog]

I use Baycox or Tolracol for cocci' simply because they are dose and forget whereas Vecoxan requires two doses and the first mentioned treatments have a residual and slowly declining effect which is supposed to offer cover whilst the lambs develop a natural ability to fight cocci'.

 

[primmiemoo]

A FEC would show nematode eggs, yes, but in terms of cocci oocysts, will not differentiate between the damaging ones and any that don't affect sheep.

With the white drench, go for a generic which is cheaper - unless you really need the shortest withdrawals.

 

[Tommy_T]

The white drenches don’t have a mega long withdrawal anyway, do they? So any one of those would cover nematodirus? Without knowing what might be the cause would it be best to treat for both?
And on a side note, if you weren’t able to put lambs on clean ground (as in not grazed last year) would you treat for either as a precaution?

 

[Longlowdog]

My wee place has been down to sheep for decades and I treat for both. About 10 years back I lost a substantial percentage of my years crop of lambs when the nemo and cocci peaked simultaneously. One dead on a Thursday a couple more on the Friday that rung alarm bells and by the time I got lab' results back on the Monday afternoon I was desperate. A dose of white wormer and a dose of Baycox stopped the losses almost overnight but it took a long while for the poor wee souls to get back to thriving. As my vet was involved he has since never questioned the use of either product.

 

[primmiemoo]

The white drenches don’t have a mega long withdrawal anyway, do they? So any one of those would cover nematodirus? Without knowing what might be the cause would it be best to treat for both?
And on a side note, if you weren’t able to put lambs on clean ground (as in not grazed last year) would you treat for either as a precaution?

Generic benzimidizole should be fine.

I tend to give myself a refresher read of the SCOPS website when it comes to nemo risks. Every year's timings are different, and sometimes need a different angle of approach. Having the few cattle to graze over the sheep fields helps to keep challenges down, but it can't guarantee clean grazing for lambs.

Here, cocci is only blanket dosed against where lambs are creep fed (there will be a tale behind every lamb that needs creep, so that little group will be considered high risk), but individual lambs in the rest of the flock that scour after a nemo drench will have a precautionary cocci drench. They always get a vivid spray mark for monitoring purposes.

 

[twizzel]

The white drenches don’t have a mega long withdrawal anyway, do they? So any one of those would cover nematodirus? Without knowing what might be the cause would it be best to treat for both?
And on a side note, if you weren’t able to put lambs on clean ground (as in not grazed last year) would you treat for either as a precaution?

I wouldn’t precautionary treat for cocci until I knew it was that from a fec or I knew there was a history of it on the farm. Vecoxan is expensive ! My lambs needed doing for the first time last year, I went away for 48 hrs left Mr Twizzel to look in on them, came home to scouring lambs. Fec showed so many cocci oocysts the vet didn’t even bother to count them anyhow fast forward to this year, different grazing field, fec showed 4500 oocysts per gram but lambs weren’t scouring so held off on treatment in case the cocci species they had was one of the ones that didn’t cause a problem. A week later they started scouring so in with the vecoxan and all looking better now. I would ring your vet and ask them if they can do a simple fec. My lambs didn’t need doing for nemotodirus, their count showed very few eggs.

 

[Chasingmytail]

at 8 weeks I expect the lamb to be on good grass does no one think its grass flush? Before you go banging in every med listed on here better to speak to vet and get a FEC done. No nemo for us last year. Def no Cocci either.

 

[andybk]

IA week later they started scouring so in with the vecoxan and all looking better now. I would ring your vet and ask them if they can do a simple fec. My lambs didn’t need doing for nemotodirus, their count showed very few eggs.

problem this time of year is nemo eggs wont be in fec , its mass movement F3 larva left over from last year that have hibernated ,and wont be laying eggs , though by now they are probably exhausted , Winter lambing flocks can get hit hard after a long cold snap followed by warm weather march / april

 

[Tommy_T]

Gave him a good wash down yesterday. Checking him today and he’s as clean as a whistle. Good in himself as well. I’m pretty sure it’s the grass that’s done it, or he’s had his chops round something that’s disagreed with him.
Will continue to monitor and also research these two issues so I’m more familiar with them.
Thanks for the advice!