New FBT.

[xmilkr]

Just doing an FBT for my Son, need a little advice, what is the difference between the short FBT available online for £200 plus and the forty page one my solicitor has sent me, l think there will be big difference in the price, also does stamp duty become payable on both forms, TIA for any info.

 

[7610 super q]

Your solicitor will probably just use the online one, but tailor it to your circumstances. I don't think it's worth skimping on tenancy agreements IMO. And don't dish out too long a FBT either. Various governments have quietly altered the AHA tenancies in the tenants favour since 1986. What's to stop them doing this to FBT's ?. I know it's family, but be careful all the same.

 

[onesiedale]

Stamp duty only if over 7 years

 

[onesiedale]

40 pages sounds long and expensive. Ask a local land agent who understands the business relationship you and your son need and I would think a simple one could be drafted for everyone's benefit

 

[AJ123]

I’d be very careful entering a 40 page lease without full hand holding by a solicitor (and I’m a surveyor who reads leases daily so like to think I understand them) Your time is best spent really carefully thinking about your heads of terms, I would get a land agent to help you think about what needs to be considered. Such as :
what your going to do when bps goes- what if tenant wants to go into long term natural capital agreement/elms etc etc
assignment
subletting
improvements/ fixtures
rent review timing and mechanism
term
landlords ability to remove part ?
landlords ability to remove part if gets planning consent
Dispute resolution procedure
non ag uses
and loads more I can’t think of right now.

The best leases never get read after they’ve been signed and put in the filing cabinet, if you think carefully up front you can achieve the same.

 

[chipchap]

As above, the agreement will only get referred to seriously when there is friction. Make sure it is watertight for all parties at the outset.

 

[Pan mixer]

My FBT's are longer than 40 pages I think. My Landlord employed a national firm.

 

[AJ123]

Stamp duty only if over 7 years

You need to check that, I think you'll find:

The seven years you’re referring to is anything over seven years and you have to make a SDLT return whether there is any tax to pay or not.

if less than seven years you might still have to pay.

Stamp duty is calculated on the present value of the first five years rent plus any premium, so SDLT liability depends on the value, not the term.

Its the tenants liability, HMRC are pretty quick to fine you if you don’t make the returns etc. on time.

 

[neilo]

My FBT's are longer than 40 pages I think. My Landlord employed a national firm.

So’s mine. It appears to be based on the estate’s standard AHA agreement, but with a few adjustments.

I had reason to go through it again in detail again last year, after I discovered my Landlord (who hadn’t even introduced himself in 8 years!) and one of the trustees wandering around in one of my fields, wanting to build a house there. I was pleased, but surprised, to see that there is no clause at all for taking any land back for that.
The trustees didn’t agree with his plans apparently, or there may have been an argument...

 

[Martyn]

You need to check that, I think you'll find:

The seven years you’re referring to is anything over seven years and you have to make a SDLT return whether there is any tax to pay or not.

if less than seven years you might still have to pay.

Stamp duty is calculated on the present value of the first five years rent plus any premium, so SDLT liability depends on the value, not the term.

Its the tenants liability, HMRC are pretty quick to fine you if you don’t make the returns etc. on time.

Get advice from more than one as source, we only had our accountant and land agent look through our fbt agreement, unfortunately we weren't told about the stamp duty on it, we have just paid it plus a £9k fine and Interest for being there years late!! We are now changing accountants!

 

[Flat 10]

You need to check that, I think you'll find:

The seven years you’re referring to is anything over seven years and you have to make a SDLT return whether there is any tax to pay or not.

if less than seven years you might still have to pay.

Stamp duty is calculated on the present value of the first five years rent plus any premium, so SDLT liability depends on the value, not the term.

Its the tenants liability, HMRC are pretty quick to fine you if you don’t make the returns etc. on time.

I agree with most of what you say but I didn’t think you need to even consider stamp if term is less than 7 years. And don’t get me started on the tax itself, I consider it most unfair, I doubt farmers were the intended target but I think FBTS should be excluded.

 

[Sid]

My FBT's are longer than 40 pages I think. My Landlord employed a national firm.

One of mine is over 40 pages the other not.

Usually the landlord employs the firms and we end up paying half!

 

[Flat 10]

One of mine is over 40 pages the other not.

Usually the landlord employs the firms and we end up paying half!

That sounds unfair!

 

[Sid]

That sounds unfair!

Latest tenancy i applied for stipulated that.

 

[Flat 10]

Latest tenancy i applied for stipulated that.

At least you knew. We applied for one and won and then LL agents said we needed to pay half fees and we told them to shove it

 

[Sid]

At least you knew. We applied for one and won and then LL agents said we needed to pay half fees and we told them to shove it

I had to pay half of stamp duty i think .
LL wanted to let short term 2 years which didn’t work for us organically.
Got 5 years, but had to put hand in pocket.

Worked for both parties

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

I had to pay half of stamp duty i think .
LL wanted to let short term 2 years which didn’t work for us organically.
Got 5 years, but had to put hand in pocket.

Worked for both parties

Which category of professional advisor “worked for both parties”?
The interests of landlord and tenant are diametrically opposed just like a buyer and a seller.
There are very strict conflict of interest rules for solicitors.

 

[Sid]

Which category of professional advisor “worked for both parties”?
The interests of landlord and tenant are diametrically opposed just like a buyer and a seller.
There are very strict conflict of interest rules for solicitors.

Not the advisor, dubious to call all advisors "professional ", but the agreement worked for both parties.

It worked for me to pay 50% fees and to get longer tenancy.

Worked for LL as have been tenant for 23 years.

 

[Ramrod]

Which category of professional advisor “worked for both parties”?
The interests of landlord and tenant are diametrically opposed just like a buyer and a seller.
There are very strict conflict of interest rules for solicitors.

Don't think that's what he's saying.

 

[xmilkr]

Thanks to all for your help, l am going to do this through a solicitor, that really greaves me as l vowed l would never pay a solicitor again but got to that age where l need to get as much turned over to the family as possible, thanks to all for your advice.