PepsiCo have switched to a 'more sustainable fuel'

[Clive]

PepsiCo just dropped an announcement. They're actually shaking things up with their delivery trucks in England.

PepsiCo transitions to sustainable hydrotreated vegetable oil

PepsiCo Adopts Sustainable Approach: Switching to Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil for Potato Transport to Slash Emissions

www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk

I was chatting to a friend last week who works in fuel R&D and is heavily involved with sustainable ICE fuels, he is a proffesor and very highly paid, he knows his onions !

the BIG issue here is the amount of electricity involved in sustainable fuel production. - basically he told me you need circa x3 Kcal of electrical energy to produce the same Kcal of synthetic fuel so these fuels will only be viable or by and definition “sustainable” to produce in countries where huge amounts of excess green energy is available

 

[BRB John]

I was chatting to a friend last week who works in fuel R&D and is heavily involved with sustainable ICE fuels, he is a proffesor and very highly paid, he knows his onions !

the BIG issue here is the amount of electricity involved in sustainable fuel production. - basically he told me you need circa x3 Kcal of electrical energy to produce the same Kcal of synthetic fuel so these fuels will only be viable or by and definition “sustainable” to produce in countries where huge amounts of excess green energy is available

Is that 3x to make HVO be biodiesel?
I had a similar thought about making nitrogen but it requires a 10kwh per kg of nitrogen.
Which just highlights the need for super cheap energy and possibly a bonus towards solar and wind if your capable of catching the peaks and turning them into either HVO or nitrogen or any other useful energy source. Must be a better option that batteries surely?

 

[ollie989898]

I was chatting to a friend last week who works in fuel R&D and is heavily involved with sustainable ICE fuels, he is a proffesor and very highly paid, he knows his onions !

the BIG issue here is the amount of electricity involved in sustainable fuel production. - basically he told me you need circa x3 Kcal of electrical energy to produce the same Kcal of synthetic fuel so these fuels will only be viable or by and definition “sustainable” to produce in countries where huge amounts of excess green energy is available

He may have been talking about synfuels which are very different to HVO. IIRC with synfuels take carbon straight out of the air and combine it with hydrogen to make liquid hydrocarbon fuels. It's a completely synthetic process from the bottom up. I think Formula 1 were toying with using it. It's 100% carbon free as you're taking the carbon from the atmosphere to make it.

 

[Brisel]

He may have been talking about synfuels which are very different to HVO. IIRC with synfuels take carbon straight out of the air and combine it with hydrogen to make liquid hydrocarbon fuels. It's a completely synthetic process from the bottom up. I think Formula 1 were toying with using it. It's 100% carbon free as you're taking the carbon from the atmosphere to make it.

Except for the energy required for the process...

 

[Clive]

Is that 3x to make HVO be biodiesel?
I had a similar thought about making nitrogen but it requires a 10kwh per kg of nitrogen.
Which just highlights the need for super cheap energy and possibly a bonus towards solar and wind if your capable of catching the peaks and turning them into either HVO or nitrogen or any other useful energy source. Must be a better option that batteries surely?

not biodiesel - he's working on fully synthetic fuel technologies

He may have been talking about synfuels which are very different to HVO. IIRC with synfuels take carbon straight out of the air and combine it with hydrogen to make liquid hydrocarbon fuels. It's a completely synthetic process from the bottom up. I think Formula 1 were toying with using it. It's 100% carbon free as you're taking the carbon from the atmosphere to make it.

correct not hvo but the new fully synthetics that some are saying are the future of ice and as you say will be used in F1

 

[ollie989898]

Except for the energy required for the process...

There is that, yes. Requires some serious process heat, electricity and probably some intermediate chemicals as catalysts, etc but the product itself, if combusted, would be net zero.

 

[ollie989898]

not biodiesel - he's working on fully synthetic fuel technologies


correct not hvo but the new fully synthetics that. some are saying are the future of ice

In theory synfuels would be superior to anything else yet put in any fuel tank because it doesn't rely on any existing feedstock so there are no contaminants and the output of your hydrocarbon mix would be tailored to the end use so you could optimise it for emissions, low or high temperature/altitude operation etc.

I'm sure Formula 1 was investigating going to these as they try to green up their act.

 

[Clive]

Except for the energy required for the process...

this is the issue - they will only be sustainable if made with renewable power in areas where they power has no other use / is to far from networks to distribute more efficiently as 3 x the kcal of simple electricity

 

[Clive]

In theory synfuels would be superior to anything else yet put in any fuel tank because it doesn't rely on any existing feedstock so there are no contaminants and the output of your hydrocarbon mix would be tailored to the end use so you could optimise it for emissions, low or high temperature/altitude operation etc.

I'm sure Formula 1 was investigating going to these as they try to green up their act.

f1 has stated they will use it by 2030 i think - some series like the porsche supercup (f1 support race) already use it

 

[ACEngineering]

f1 has stated they will use it by 2030 i think - some series like the porsche supercup (f1 support race) already use it

The old cars on the parade lap of Silverstone F1 where all given the option of using synfuel, there is a company at bicester heritage that are selling it.
They had some deal with Silverstone to supply it for the parade lap.

My mate was driving a car there and was going to use it but it was raining on the only day they were allowed to go to bicester heritage to fill the car up, they were not allowed to take a can to fill they would only fill the tank of the car to be used. He had spent all week getting it ready so didnt want it getting plastered in road grime just to pick up fuel so that didnt use it but I know some did use it.

 

[puppet]

The old cars on the parade lap of Silverstone F1 where all given the option of using synfuel, there is a company at bicester heritage that are selling it.
They had some deal with Silverstone to supply it for the parade lap.

My mate was driving a car there and was going to use it but it was raining on the only day they were allowed to go to bicester heritage to fill the car up, they were not allowed to take a can to fill they would only fill the tank of the car to be used. He had spent all week getting it ready so didnt want it getting plastered in road grime just to pick up fuel so that didnt use it but I know some did use it.

I guess using synthetic fuel will be the final step to allow the whole pointless, private jetsetting, mass transport inducing, tyre-destroying, over- consuming, tax dodging circus which is Formula 1 to sleep easy at night.

The only race where there is more excitement when the car is actually stationary. If you get excited by tyre changing then go to your local ATS and save £200.
If you are going to race high-powered cars for fun then just put some bl**dy petrol in it. If you want to save the planet get a bicycle.

 

[ollie989898]

I guess using synthetic fuel will be the final step to allow the whole pointless, private jetsetting, mass transport inducing, tyre-destroying, over- consuming, tax dodging circus which is Formula 1 to sleep easy at night.

The only race where there is more excitement when the car is actually stationary. If you get excited by tyre changing then go to your local ATS and save £200.
If you are going to race high-powered cars for fun then just put some bl**dy petrol in it. If you want to save the planet get a bicycle.

Ok, shall I put you down as not a fan then?

 

[britishblue]

Porsche have invested in a plant in South America!

 

[PSQ]

Porsche have invested in a plant in South America!

What a coincidence, so have many Porsche drivers!

In their case, it's the produce of the Erythoxylon Coca plant.

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Big problem with going to bio diesel is modern diesels need very refined diesel which bio diesel isn’t, mainly because if emissions and common rail systems.

They got it backward. IF the powers that be had any forsight they would have concentrated on bio fuels, refining them, THEN refined the diesel engine.

Can run a 20 year old car on chip fat, but can’t run a modern on red.

 

[BuskhillFarm]

Porsche have invested in a plant in South America!

They’ve been using sugar cane there for years for a main source of petrol equavlient