Phasing a pto

[Flatlander]

Quick question. How should a multi jointed pto be phased. I’ve taken a three section pto off a rotary ditcher and replaced the u joints. As well as the four jack shaft support bearings. Should all the stages be phased as one or just within each section. Have a major rattle right back to the tractor and wonder if this can be it.

 

[MF-ANDY]

Can't see how you can get it out of phase. Lemon tube and star can only be phased in 2 ways, both of which are correct and triangular can only be phased one way. As long as the yokes on both ends of a shaft are in the same plane you'll be fine.

 

[mengeleguru]

The most important thing on a pto shaft is the the universal joints are aligned along the shaft.

Meaning that looking at the end of the shaft if the universal joint is 12 o clock to 6 o clock and 3 o’clock to 9 o clock the other end should be the same.

The reason is if they are wrong the actions of the joints actually speed up and slow down slightly during rotation.
I know it sounds odd but it causes vibration.

Most shafts Lemmon, traingular, square profile have a master spline so you can’t get it wrong.
Splined ones and some others you can.

While we are on the subject a 540 yolk goes on to the shaft quite a bit further than a 1000 speed yolk.
A better fit so also causing less vibration , wear lasts longer.

You have multiple shafts so check the uj’s and I would align the all anyway.

If you have a wide angle shaft check the the disc and ball sockets in the middle as play there will caus vibration.

To check put it on the floor, one foot on the shaft and see if there is loose movement on the end yolk. The more the free play there the worse the vibration.

 

[Dry Rot]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem at all straight forward on a Land Rover. According to the manual, because the UJs are not on the same plane, one UJ on a Land Rover needs to be out of phase (about 30 degrees). Sorry, can't quote direct as I don't have the copy. Following the markings or master spline on the PTO works fine but some after market PTOs don't have markings! (Mine doesn't).

I showed a print out of the LR manual to the owner of my garage who said he had never heard of this and had been doing it "the wrong way" all his life! My tiny brain isn't sharp enough to follow the reasoning, but that seems to be the facts. But, as stated in the previous post by Mengeleguru, agricultural PTOs aren't usually splined anyway so it should be impossible to get it wrong. I just know there are no missing splines or markings on my Defender PTO shafts so they must be a replacements and I think they are on wrong anyway! (Another thing for me to worry about).

Propshaft Phasing (or more accurately) out of phasing

Hi All, Now have new Clutch, new Primary box (Ta Dave at Ashcrofts ) and rebuilt T Box, ...so nearly there When I picked up the front prop to fit the slider dropped out oh deep joy.. so I picked it up and popped it back together "In Phase" - (no, there were NO Marking at all - how helpfull) and f...

forums.lr4x4.com

 

[clbarclay]

On a tractor PTO, the shafts on the tractor and implement should be parallel and the UJs get phased to suit that.

On a land rovers with a live front axle, the output from the transfer case and the input to the front diff are not parallel. Because of this they are phased differently. Some models even had a double UJs at one end, but it's all a fudge to minimise rather than eliminate the problem.

 

[mengeleguru]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem at all straight forward on a Land Rover. According to the manual, because the UJs are not on the same plane, one UJ on a Land Rover needs to be out of phase (about 30 degrees). Sorry, can't quote direct as I don't have the copy. Following the markings or master spline on the PTO works fine but some after market PTOs don't have markings! (Mine doesn't).

I showed a print out of the LR manual to the owner of my garage who said he had never heard of this and had been doing it "the wrong way" all his life! My tiny brain isn't sharp enough to follow the reasoning, but that seems to be the facts. But, as stated in the previous post by Mengeleguru, agricultural PTOs aren't usually splined anyway so it should be impossible to get it wrong. I just know there are no missing splines or markings on my Defender PTO shafts so they must be a replacements and I think they are on wrong anyway! (Another thing for me to worry about).

Propshaft Phasing (or more accurately) out of phasing

Hi All, Now have new Clutch, new Primary box (Ta Dave at Ashcrofts ) and rebuilt T Box, ...so nearly there When I picked up the front prop to fit the slider dropped out oh deep joy.. so I picked it up and popped it back together "In Phase" - (no, there were NO Marking at all - how helpfull) and f...

forums.lr4x4.com

To be fair I always mark the end of the shaft to align with the grease nipple as some of the land rover ones have a plastic or Teflon coating on them and are notoriously difficult to put together if in the wrong place.

 

[Wisconsonian]

That would be the first thing I'd suspect. Is this three sections with a fixed section and two pieces that mesh to extend, with three u joints? or three sections with four u joints? If they are mounted at a bad angle, then they will not be mounted in the same phase typically, but it gets complicated enough that I'd want a manual to figure out how.

 

[Flatlander]

Bit of an update. I aligned the joints of the upper two sections only to find out the short jack joining them has splines that dont line up perfect both ends Nevertheless after lining up the yokes on both shafts the rattle has stopped.

 

[Sausage]

To be fair I always mark the end of the shaft to align with the grease nipple as some of the land rover ones have a plastic or Teflon coating on them and are notoriously difficult to put together if in the wrong place.

I’ve got the land rover prop special socket. With a rattle gun it is so quick to remove a prop that no way would I ever split one.

 

[Dry Rot]

To be fair I always mark the end of the shaft to align with the grease nipple as some of the land rover ones have a plastic or Teflon coating on them and are notoriously difficult to put together if in the wrong place.

Agreed. That's what should be done. But my shafts became disconnected, as did one belonging to one of the posters in the LR forum post, and there were no marks. So I think the correct thing to do is to reassemble 30 degrees or three splines 'out', for defenders at least. I still wonder if that is 30 degrees clockwise or 30 degrees anti-clockwise, or doesn't it matter?

 

[Dry Rot]

I’ve got the land rover prop special socket. With a rattle gun it is so quick to remove a prop that no way would I ever split one.

Hold it at the wrong angle and it may just slip out!

 

[David.]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem at all straight forward on a Land Rover. According to the manual, because the UJs are not on the same plane, one UJ on a Land Rover needs to be out of phase (about 30 degrees). Sorry, can't quote direct as I don't have the copy. Following the markings or master spline on the PTO works fine but some after market PTOs don't have markings! (Mine doesn't).

I showed a print out of the LR manual to the owner of my garage who said he had never heard of this and had been doing it "the wrong way" all his life! My tiny brain isn't sharp enough to follow the reasoning, but that seems to be the facts. But, as stated in the previous post by Mengeleguru, agricultural PTOs aren't usually splined anyway so it should be impossible to get it wrong. I just know there are no missing splines or markings on my Defender PTO shafts so they must be a replacements and I think they are on wrong anyway! (Another thing for me to worry about).

Propshaft Phasing (or more accurately) out of phasing

Hi All, Now have new Clutch, new Primary box (Ta Dave at Ashcrofts ) and rebuilt T Box, ...so nearly there When I picked up the front prop to fit the slider dropped out oh deep joy.. so I picked it up and popped it back together "In Phase" - (no, there were NO Marking at all - how helpfull) and f...

forums.lr4x4.com

A new front prop is out of phase, out of the box.

 

[Dry Rot]

A new front prop is out of phase, out of the box.

You buy new?

 

[Hair Bear]

P38 front prop is the same.

 

[Netherfield]

I felt sure when we had a Defender the front prop had a master spline on it.

It could eat UJs at the front, so I bought a spare shaft complete, could change the joints at leisure that way.

 

[David.]

You buy new?

While ago, but not much dearer than messing about with a couple of worn out spiders, and of course the plastic coating on the splines is going to be knackered too, which itself prematurely kills the spiders.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem at all straight forward on a Land Rover. According to the manual, because the UJs are not on the same plane, one UJ on a Land Rover needs to be out of phase (about 30 degrees). Sorry, can't quote direct as I don't have the copy. Following the markings or master spline on the PTO works fine but some after market PTOs don't have markings! (Mine doesn't).

I showed a print out of the LR manual to the owner of my garage who said he had never heard of this and had been doing it "the wrong way" all his life! My tiny brain isn't sharp enough to follow the reasoning, but that seems to be the facts. But, as stated in the previous post by Mengeleguru, agricultural PTOs aren't usually splined anyway so it should be impossible to get it wrong. I just know there are no missing splines or markings on my Defender PTO shafts so they must be a replacements and I think they are on wrong anyway! (Another thing for me to worry about).

Propshaft Phasing (or more accurately) out of phasing

Hi All, Now have new Clutch, new Primary box (Ta Dave at Ashcrofts ) and rebuilt T Box, ...so nearly there When I picked up the front prop to fit the slider dropped out oh deep joy.. so I picked it up and popped it back together "In Phase" - (no, there were NO Marking at all - how helpfull) and f...

forums.lr4x4.com

Landrover, the best thing you can do with one of them. Is sell it and get a Toyota/Lexus.

 

[clbarclay]

I would agree, though our 80 series has probably now reached the same fate as a the last classic range rover we had. The difference being the 80 series is 31 years old before needing and excessive amount of body welding to pass an MOT and I recall the last RRC was just over 20 years old.

 

[Pistonbroke]

A sticky sliding section will cause rattling and vibration

 

[Netherfield]

A sticky sliding section will cause rattling and vibration

But she quite likes it.