Red Tractor - Mass Cancellation

[jendan]

Its all alot of paper pushing bulls#t that is a waste of ink and paper. Its been the making of all the scaremongering cross compliance firms though.

Careful now! We dont want FarmyStu out of a job do we.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I'd question why my grain that goes to a feed mill MUST be farm assured for them to be allowed to include it in their feed, but the GM soya from South America can be added to their feed with no farm assurance paperwork at all.

Can you give me the answer as to why this is OK?

Maybe you missed this @FarmyStu , but you were asking what rules would anyone ask to be removed from farm assurance, so see the quote above.

 

[Weare Cham]

It’s grain where they have you by the balls

Impossible to be a Uk milling wheat grower without assurance ......... yet none RT wheat is imported to the same mills to make the same flour and breads etc

The sticker for the passport is what you’re paying for, there is no other value so those stickers work out rather expensive imo

I wonder if it’s actually legal for a buyer to discriminate inconsistently in this way - I might declare myself “gender neutral” then no way anyone will mess me about !

You either have balls or are gender neutral,
What are you going to choose?[emoji6] [emoji1]

 

[Wheatonrotty]

Whilst I often think a fair bit of the assurance stuff is a farce we do have to remember that we are supplying customers and need to supply what they want to buy. If they want it assured and you want to supply them then you need to be assured. If you can find customers who aren't worried about assurance then drop it.
A mass cancellation would be portrayed by the press as a bunch of wealthy landowners refusing to produce food to a basic standard. We all know this is not the case but without the pr machine that the rest of the food industry has it is the message that would come out.
Having said that a more open management style from RT would help.
I'm writing this having spent too much of the last week on assurance stuff with a sprayer mot last week, an RT inspection yesterday and a nroso meeting this morning!

 

[Wooly]

You do realise that most of these are LEGAL requirements and have to be done by law? Leaving RT wouldn't remove them at all.

One of the big criticisms of RT is that all it does is check farmers are complying with the law. Being a member does at least keep you legal assuming you're properly inspected and aren't fraudulently filling out paperwork.

You hit the nail on the head. Why have RT when most things are legal requirements any how ?

Let's be realistic......... any body that has an inspection, fills in some paperwork fraudulently the day before. That's not just farmers, but every business owner.

Perhaps we can have an audit of produce that leaves the farm as non FA, yet somehow ends up as FA by the time it arrives at the mill or abattoir !!

 

[Werzle]

You hit the nail on the head. Why have RT when most things are legal requirements any how ?

Let's be realistic......... any body that has an inspection, fills in some paperwork fraudulently the day before. That's not just farmers, but every business owner.

Perhaps we can have an audit of produce that leaves the farm as non FA, yet somehow ends up as FA by the time it arrives at the mill or abattoir !!

Spot on. Wheres the annual figures from RT ?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Whilst I often think a fair bit of the assurance stuff is a farce we do have to remember that we are supplying customers and need to supply what they want to buy. If they want it assured and you want to supply them then you need to be assured.

I do agree with you on that point. However, i know I keep going on about the same thing, but it can't be right to say it's ok to have non-assured soya going into a ration at a feed mill, yet at the same time saying that the feed wheat from the UK must be assured. That is surely complete nonsense?

I think RT need pulling up on this for feed grains.

I believe there might be some legislation that says organisations that have a monopoly position (I would think that RT must fit into that category) cannot treat some suppliers differently to others. Would farmers have a case? Not sure, there might be a case.

 

[Tamar]

I do agree with you on that point. However, i know I keep going on about the same thing, but it can't be right to say it's ok to have non-assured soya going into a ration at a feed mill, yet at the same time saying that the feed wheat from the UK must be assured. That is surely complete nonsense?

I think RT need pulling up on this for feed grains.

I believe there might be some legislation that says organisations that have a monopoly position (I would think that RT must fit into that category) cannot treat some suppliers differently to others. Would farmers have a case? Not sure, there might be a case.

Perhaps we could ask the Union that looks after farmers interests to look into it for us. That's why we pay a subscription to them for.

Oh, hang on, perhaps we need plan B.

 

[FarmyStu]

I do agree with you on that point. However, i know I keep going on about the same thing, but it can't be right to say it's ok to have non-assured soya going into a ration at a feed mill, yet at the same time saying that the feed wheat from the UK must be assured. That is surely complete nonsense?

I think RT need pulling up on this for feed grains.

I believe there might be some legislation that says organisations that have a monopoly position (I would think that RT must fit into that category) cannot treat some suppliers differently to others. Would farmers have a case? Not sure, there might be a case.

In this case who's saying the feed wheat must be assured? RT or the firm making the ration?

 

[kiwi pom]

Perhaps we could ask the Union that looks after farmers interests to look into it for us. That's why we pay a subscription to them for.

Oh, hang on, perhaps we need plan B.

Good point, so how many of you that are in the NFU spend time talking to your local rep (or however it works) about the problem? OR is it easier to just moan about it on here/to your neighbour.

What's the answer to the problem? The end user demands something, basically to cover their arse. Most probably choose RT because its the easiest or they assume everyone has it anyway so what's the alternative?

 

[ollie989898]

Someone please tell me which of her majesties laws require you to MOT a sprayer as I dont know??

Most of the legislation is actually only a code of practice designed to help farmers stay on the protection of water act etc.

 

[kiwi pom]

His question should read...Have you more time to devote to your farm now you are free of RT.

Anyway firstly I wouldn't have to read through and interpret the whole rt requirements for a start.

Write a cheque, post it.
Record it in accounts.
Count the insects in the grainstore and write it down.
Write down every time I cooled the grain,checked the temp, swept up,
swept the trailers the list goes on.

It drives me crazy even getting this far with the list. That's why I packed it in and now let next door deliver it all to the mill for me. I reckon they record 12 tonne wheat a hectare on their records to cover their tracks. They also get a premium as they've more bargaining power with merchants selling a bigger heap so it's win win.
Above all it's the satisfaction of knowing I'm no longer being taken for a ride by timewasters, call them what you will, and there are better things in life with which to occupy my time.

So you grow non RT crops and your neighbour hauls and sells them for you as RT?

 

[colhonk]

When `The Man` phoned me, I also asked why I had to test my sprayer 5 times as often as every other country in the EU, he said it was the rt lots idea, not our customers.

 

[kiwi pom]

Someone please tell me which of her majesties laws require you to MOT a sprayer as I dont know??

Most of the legislation is actually only a code of practice designed to help farmers stay on the protection of water act etc.

Would you not think it a good idea to have something applying thousands of pounds worth of chemicals to crops, checked on a regular basis? If you are testing it why not record it?

 

[spin cycle]

Someone please tell me which of her majesties laws require you to MOT a sprayer as I dont know??

Most of the legislation is actually only a code of practice designed to help farmers stay on the protection of water act etc.

eu reg to mot sprayer every 5 yrs IIRC....rt insist on annual

 

[spin cycle]

Would you not think it a good idea to have something applying thousands of pounds worth of chemicals to crops, checked on a regular basis? If you are testing it why not record it?

calibration yes....but not an outside annual mot costing a disproportionate amount to smaller farmers...particularly when eu standards are 5 yrs

do you have sprayer mot's in nz?

 

[kiwi pom]

calibration yes....but not an outside annual mot costing a disproportionate amount to smaller farmers...particularly when eu standards are 5 yrs

do you have sprayer mot's in nz?

I've no idea to be honest.
I suppose the problem is it has to be done by an outside company with some extra qualification, rather than someone with an operators licence?

 

[ollie989898]

Would you not think it a good idea to have something applying thousands of pounds worth of chemicals to crops, checked on a regular basis? If you are testing it why not record it?

That is not the point. The point is these various requirements are in fact merely guidelines aimed at protecting soil and water- chemical stores also fall into similar.

There is no specific law (or there was not 5 years ago when I completed by basis project?) that states all chemical stores should be fireproof they are merely codes of practice one may use to prove due diligence if they found themselves in court for polluting a watercourse etc.

 

[ollie989898]

eu reg to mot sprayer every 5 yrs IIRC....rt insist on annual

Sod the EU show me the actual laws? The EU water quality directive is not defined by specific laws hence the huge disparency between member states and their implementation.

 

[glasshouse]

The french would never stand for it, they have actual balls