Rejections/ mismothering in outdoor systems

[exmoor dave]

So we've been moving towards a outdoor lambing system for our april lambing flock,
This year just the triplets, few rogue suffolks from the early flock and 2T twins have been housed (out in the day).

Last year in the main twin group, we got up to about 5% rejections of one twin.
With the ewes numbered prelambing (for recording purposes) and lambs tagged at 1 day old, its pretty easy to find a lamb that has strayed/been lead away from a birthing site.
So ewe plus lambs can be reunited and if its apparent that she doesn't want to take a lamb back, she's picked up and taken to the shed and put in stocks or halter, probably about half the ewes take the rejected lamb back.

Often the rejected lamb isn't far away at all which is even more frustrating!

We discussed this with @Global ovine last autumn, who pointed out that you just don't know what has happened in the field before you get that, especially other ewes interfering on the birth sight, which in highsight, the rejections did stop quite abruptly last year so maybe a trouble maker lambed herself.

So this year we've removed a couple ewes from the fields that we noticed were interfering (they carried on in the shed too ?), that seems to have helped but we've still had two rejections since, so those ewes are in stocks.
One the lamb was a long way from the ewe.
The other had both lambs but a stronger ewe was interfering and that seems to have been just enough, that couple have been in stocks and will need to go back in the stocks because she's still being silly.

Naughty ewes are recorded as having misbehaved.

We don't have flat fields but do lamb the twins in the most friendliest fields we have.

So the point of my long winded post is to ask what if any problems others are having?

And what you do about it?

@Tim W would you just lift a rejected lamb?


TIA

 

[It was already broken.]

I don't see that much. Just the odd one. Easily lambing tups helps I think. And culling anyone who doesn't mother their lambs. I number all my ewes for that reason even though the purists on here say they don't bother.

 

[tinsheet]

One or ewes have been a right pain this year, catch them and stick them else where out of harm's way, they tend to lamb in the next 48 hrs or so,
Should they be culled for this?
I've caught them fairly early this year so the ewes haven't rejected any yet!
Still time though

 

[Johngee]

We used to get a lot of problems when we had Beulahs, they were a nightmare, Easycares are much better. Had one ewe early on who was trying to steal lambs, caught her, put her in another field where she settled down and lambed about two weeks later. Had two ewes manage to lamb in the same corner at the same time a couple of weeks ago. Tried to separate them but one ewe kept coming and taking off with three lambs. Took the other ewe in with two lambs but she’s still not happy even after two spells with the halter.

 

[S J H]

I've had a few this year, I bought a twin in this morning. She's an old ewe but I think it's interfering that's the problem. I had 3 triplets lambing in the same spot 2 days ago. Having more problems now they're spread out, than when they were tightly stocked.

 

[Agrivator]

A lamb which has been well licked by another ewe will often be rejected by its real mother. I find it hard to see how the ewe that's stolen it can imprint a scent on the lamb, but who knows what sense of smell a newly lambed ewe has.

But it's a fact of life that the more maternal the ewes are, the more likely they will be to steal.

 

[Woolless]

I think that a lot will be caused by lamb number one wandering off to see another ewe while mum is busy shoving out lamb number two. If you have a bad pincher this will make things worse. I was wondering myself whether culling ewes that pinch badly would be a help? Or is it just a slightly aberrant expression of a good maternal instinct

Had a funny one last week. Ewe lambed twins and her sister was almost keener on them than she was. Got them split up and sis spent a day out the way to calm down. Returned to the field and never bothered after that until lambing several days later. Sisterly love?

 

[Bury the Trash]

So we've been moving towards a outdoor lambing system for our april lambing flock,
This year just the triplets, few rogue suffolks from the early flock and 2T twins have been housed (out in the day).

Last year in the main twin group, we got up to about 5% rejections of one twin.
With the ewes numbered prelambing (for recording purposes) and lambs tagged at 1 day old, its pretty easy to find a lamb that has strayed/been lead away from a birthing site.
So ewe plus lambs can be reunited and if its apparent that she doesn't want to take a lamb back, she's picked up and taken to the shed and put in stocks or halter, probably about half the ewes take the rejected lamb back.

Often the rejected lamb isn't far away at all which is even more frustrating!

We discussed this with @Global ovine last autumn, who pointed out that you just don't know what has happened in the field before you get that, especially other ewes interfering on the birth sight, which in highsight, the rejections did stop quite abruptly last year so maybe a trouble maker lambed herself.

So this year we've removed a couple ewes from the fields that we noticed were interfering (they carried on in the shed too ?), that seems to have helped but we've still had two rejections since, so those ewes are in stocks.
One the lamb was a long way from the ewe.
The other had both lambs but a stronger ewe was interfering and that seems to have been just enough, that couple have been in stocks and will need to go back in the stocks because she's still being silly.

Naughty ewes are recorded as having misbehaved.

We don't have flat fields but do lamb the twins in the most friendliest fields we have.

So the point of my long winded post is to ask what if any problems others are having?

And what you do about it?

@Tim W would you just lift a rejected lamb?


TIA

Long winded post is fine , not good is the inappropriate use of 'so ' four times ?

Nothing else to add of any substance , other than bigger lambing field smaller groups a nd what would you do with a 'lost 'lamb indoors .... well lifting him before he disrupts others....... and take away is the end game I guess .

 

[Agrivator]

I think that a lot will be caused by lamb number one wandering off to see another ewe while mum is busy shoving out lamb number two. If you have a bad pincher this will make things worse. I was wondering myself whether culling ewes that pinch badly would be a help? Or is it just a slightly aberrant expression of a good maternal instinct

Had a funny one last week. Ewe lambed twins and her sister was almost keener on them than she was. Got them split up and sis spent a day out the way to calm down. Returned to the field and never bothered after that until lambing several days later. Sisterly love?

Sheep tend to be very racist, in that they tend to stick to their own kind. None of mine has a mirror, or even looks into a pool of water, so how can they recognise their own kind. Is there any other solution, other than that all breeds and crosses must have a distinct scent?


Is that why folk in posh areas tend not to mix with folk from deprived areas?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Have been "drift lambing" this year and last, in order to get the rotation going earlier. Move the unlambed ewes on every day or so. Last year, odd problem ewe but generally nothing to worry about. This year, seemingly a lot more hassle, though when I actually analyse it, it's not big numbers. Issues with maybe 5 or 6 couples out of about 150 doubles lambed so far. Still very annoying, and worse than last year, though dont know why.

 

[Guleesh]

A lamb which has been well licked by another ewe will often be rejected by its real mother. I find it hard to see how the ewe that's stolen it can imprint a scent on the lamb, but who knows what sense of smell a newly lambed ewe has.

But it's a fact of life that the more maternal the ewes are, the more likely they will be to steal.

We've a ewe here that goes crazy every lambing, when the first lamb is born she wants it and when she's removed from the field she takes several days to settle down and give up on it. What's really surprising is how laid back and unmaternal she is with her own lamb. I wonder how much maternal instinct is just a desire for udder pressure to be relieved?

 

[beardface]

White tag usually cures all problems here....

 

[Tim W]

@exmoor dave
I don't see this very often & when i do i think it's down to too many mothers/stealing ewes
I just lift the lamb & give it away---then make a note of the ewe

That's my approach to most problem lambs

 

[Al R]

Get under 1/100 rejected in the ewes.
Ewe lambs this year they seem to not like their lamb or try and kill it if it’s needed even the slight bit of assistance, ewe lambs that have lambed themselves will kill you before letting you take the lamb. ?‍

 

[HarryB97]

I had the same issue last year with my first time outside lambing. This year I gave them a larger area and reduced the group size by half and it seams to be working much better so far.

 

[Greythundercloudys]

Iv seen this lmbing outside, we just do it inside now, obviously more work and up threw the night but outside was hellish here, out at 5,30 in the morning normal dead lmbs to meet you, then hung lmbs, you ended up with all that trouble brought in, facing those fields in a wet, cold April, hellish, along with ewes stealing lmbs.

 

[Nithsdale]

Recent years I would frustratingly get a a few ewes reject a lamb after a day or so... I always put it down to scent build up on my waterproofs, banding/numbering tens of newborn pairs and singles every day, some still damp/wet

Scanning this year, singles and trips drawn off and ran separately. Twins ran on the same 3-4 fields they would have been with the singles and trips all together.

Result - lower stocking density. Zero rejections this year. 1 ewe was iffy of a lamb, but the lamb was relentless and bullied the ewe into submission in the field.

My feeling driving round, the extra space was very noticeable. Ewes were much more relaxed and did their own thing... they could find a quiet corner and keep themselves to themself to birth alone. You still get lambing hot spots which seem to be every ewes favourite place to lamb - but on the whole, instances of problems were much lower.

 

[jamesy]

It’s pinching rather than rejection that tends to be my problem with hill type NCC. Some ewes just have to get in on every lambing!

 

[jamesy]

I do however suffer from rejection in my life??

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I have the lambers jammed up so tight that everyone can see everyone else blink and everyone (other than those in the throes of lambing) are shifted once/twice a day.
As you know, Dave, "shifting the stock" is all I do so they don't worry about rushing anywhere, they just move on with their lambs in tow

All ewes must rear their lambs as hoggets or they're down the road, which helps tremendously with selecting good maternal sheep; the only exceptions are where foul weather has killed their lamb(s) in which case they may get a second chance.
Not their fault if they lamb and it snows that particular day in October... can't be helped by man nor beast.

Usually the ewe rejects a lamb because it's no good, often that isn't apparent to me because I'm not a ewe; but I trust their judgement on the matter.

Have reared a few on the bottle that have been blind in one eye or just plain dopey things and really regretted it in the end, the ewe was right every time to walk away and concentrate on her good lamb(s).

Ask me more in 6 months time, as the rams are coming next weekend to go over the 350 ewe lambs I met this Thursday will be a fun time and I look forward to it already