Rubbish Wheat after Naked Oats?

Daniel

Member
Took on some fields last autumn which had had a crop of naked oats on. Sprayed off a carpet of volunteers and flailed them off in 2 fields, then drilled with Claydon. Other fields the volunteers were too thick so they were either disced a couple of times or even ploughed in one case.

And the Claydon fields look awful, some parts of the field ok but some look like this.
CAAA2798-E12F-401F-B15D-74AACA97E087.jpeg
9B27170C-F020-48D3-B585-E95D6AC03E53.jpeg



About 50% looks ok like this:
919BCFFA-283D-464E-BF37-38E1483C15BF.jpeg

Tissue tests show a little bit low in K which we’ve tried to correct with foliar K, but nothing major.

Disced fields are better and ploughed is ok.

Is this a likely effect of the oat trash poisoning the wheat? Allelopathy? Maybe coupled to the lack of rain which stopped any recovery? The straw had been baled but there was a carpet of volunteers?

We don’t grow oats ourselves so this is probably not a problem that will repeat itself I hope.
 

Daniel

Member
It’s a possibility I suppose? It’s on black fen so N not normally an issue, would have only had about 160kgs of N. However the field next to it that was disced has had the same N and looks fine, allowing for the lack of rain.

Would your theory be that the discing mineralised a bit more N than the Claydon to help to crop over winter?

Tissue tests from March and May:
16CFF708-E5C6-4008-9497-8B9738E6A4A1.png
3A0E148D-9822-4238-982F-C681E5C71F91.png


I would think that the later tissue test reflects the fact that the crop can’t get hold of the nutrients from the bone dry soil as much as that they are lacking?
 
I saw the first picture and my first thought was one of take-all but that makes no sense if oats were involved. I have seen similar (involved a claydon actually) on some fairly dark organic soils and they looked exactly like that, usually in patches. Plants less filled out, shorter and unhappy looking. The usual manganese and similar additions to the tank seemed to have only modest improvement.

Could they be fighting off a BYDV infection, take all or do some of the fields have 'cereal sickness'? Those highly organic soils can do some funny things.

Alleopathy from the oat residue or some kind of disturbed soil chemistry from them as they break down?

Brisel will no doubt be along shortly.
 

Brisel

Member
Location
Dorset
Toxins from straw decay was my first thought. Hardly a mass of stubble on the top. Did you chop the straw?
 

Brisel

Member
Location
Dorset
Straw was baled according to op
Thanks - I'd missed that bit. One of the photos looks to be in a line roughly matching a swath, so I think that oat residues are still to blame. The worst damage on the least cultivated parts also backs that theory up.
 

Daniel

Member
Straw baled but by the time I got access to spray it off in late Oct there was a thick carpet of volunteers that had to be flailed off to get the Claydon to drill though. The same thing has happened to a lesser extent where the trash was flailed and then disced. There was 30 odd hectares of the stuff all told.

I saw a Claydon salesman this evening at an event and maybe I should have used a front disc rather than a tine to cut through the trash, leaving all the volunteers stood upright.

In either case in a normal situation I wouldn’t have let the volunteers get so far advanced. I think it will have to be chalked up to experience.

I do like to document my ‘experiences’ online for all to see.
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Strange, i was speaking to another farmer and he normally bales everything but was planning chopping some oat straw because agronomist had told him how good it was for following crop!

He would be ploughing it in though.
 

RushesToo

Member
Location
Fingringhoe
Straw baled but by the time I got access to spray it off in late Oct there was a thick carpet of volunteers that had to be flailed off to get the Claydon to drill though. The same thing has happened to a lesser extent where the trash was flailed and then disced. There was 30 odd hectares of the stuff all told.

I saw a Claydon salesman this evening at an event and maybe I should have used a front disc rather than a tine to cut through the trash, leaving all the volunteers stood upright.

In either case in a normal situation I wouldn’t have let the volunteers get so far advanced. I think it will have to be chalked up to experience.

I do like to document my ‘experiences’ online for all to see.
@Daniel very generous, Anything that lends to combined knowledge is welcome. It probably also helps us remember not to make the same mistakes. Others also bare their souls ooofarmer and soya beans another example. Thank you
 

robbie

Member
@Daniel I've had simular problems to you in wheat and barley behind cereals which was all ploughed.

The poorer bits of mine coincide with where the swath was laying behind the combine.
We cultivated all our stubbles post harvest. Normally we'd go through again but because it was so dry I didn't want to loose anymore moisture. By the time we started ploughing we had a thick mat of volunteers behind the combine, which in hindsight I should have sprayed off sooner but I thought the plough would sort them.

Everywhere were there was a lot of volunteers ploughed in the corn came up poor, stunted and pale yellow, these patches were visible most of the spring.i think it has to be a combination of lack of moisture and some sort of allopathic affect from the decaying greenery.
 
Up until 2011, the highest yield of wheat I ever grew was a first wheat following Naked Oats, 13.75 t/ha, in 2002.
The Naked Oats were grown in 2001 and yielded well. The straw was baled and we ploughed ahead of the wheat.
It was drilled on September 11th, the day the twin towers of the WTC were crashed in to 9,11.
When I Combined that wheat, I couldn’t make out why the engine seemed to lacking power. The I looked at the Grain Brain, having just unloaded the 1st load on the headland and was shocked to see it reading 12.5 t/ha on the outside round!
It is easy to forget that Oats are a fantastic break crop.
 
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I have wheat after naked oats which looks the best of all my wheat this time. Original plan was to direct drill after oats with the straw baled. But the chap who bought the straw faffed about and it got wet, then spread and rowed up but there was a lot left. Decided to run tined cultivator through the stubble at 3” to mix the trash up. Without a doubt the right thing to do. Wheat crop looks great and I’m sure the trash as helped hold onto moisture. Had sewage sludge in the autumn and first split of N and S 20th of Feb.
 

teslacoils

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
I've chopped oat straw and left it on top. I've chopped oat straw and ploughed it it. I won't do either again, but if I had to I'd certainly bury it.

This year's wheat after spring oats had a light discing to mix the chopped trash in. The baled headlands (long story) look much, much better.

Not certain, but unless the different roots align with variable soil, I'd blame trash or volunteers.
 
Yes. It was baled but I think the amount of volunteers replicated chopping the straw.
I reckon it’s got to be straw/trash poisoning.
Had it of been a more normal wetter year, you might have got away with it.
The roots have hit the toxic straw/trash mat and can’t get through it.

I can’t see a pH on your analysis. It also looks like a classic acidic situation. Could the decaying straw have turned it more acidic in this very dry year?
 
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rob1

Member
Location
wiltshire
I have two fields of wheat next to each other one came out of two years of grass the other has had a long run of cereals and last year spring oats, the wheat behind the oats is quite a bit thicker which surprised me, got a bit this time where half the field is grass the other spring oats, will treat it exactly the same next season and see if it is different
 

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