Sam 3

[Badshot]

Yes but it gives you a route map to achieve it

I give up

Go on and advise folks to do stuff that's not in the handbook, see how much they think of you after they've spent double the amount on seed than they need to, and you still wash your hands of it when they come back in 2 years complaining the expensive mix hasn't grown!!!

No skin off my nose

I'll say it once more, there is the handbook that has to be followed and the guidance that can help if you've no f*c*i*g idea what you're doing. If the farmer in the scheme has half an idea of how to farm, they'll have half an idea of how to establish something to meet the aims of SFI.

 

[som farmer]

the word of FWAG
you need to establish, and maintain, a ley with a mix of grass/herbs/legumes.
no specific mix quoted

under the voluntary guides, is where they suggest mixes, they are not mandatory.

one big obstacle that has arisen.

anyone looking to claim, has to check whether they have historic remains, on their farm/field.
you can get this info through the county, on a HEFER map.

You may, or may NOT know if you have any, we have a lot, most of which we hadn't got a clue about, they do not inform you

This knocks most of the 'better' options out, including SAM3, herbal leys. Reason, deep rooting herbs, may damage historic remains. Considering most of ours have been ploughed for decades, a bit of a laugh.

on the same fields, if we go from arable, to herbal ley, our water board, Wessex, will pay you the same amount, as SFI, £141 ac

the difference, water is looking to mitigate phosphate levels, thereby saving millions, the other is the 'environment'.

so we are shuffling round our original plan, to better fit around HEFER.

l would suggest, you get someone to help/submit your claim.

 

[Hindsight]

the word of FWAG
you need to establish, and maintain, a ley with a mix of grass/herbs/legumes.
no specific mix quoted

under the voluntary guides, is where they suggest mixes, they are not mandatory.

one big obstacle that has arisen.

anyone looking to claim, has to check whether they have historic remains, on their farm/field.
you can get this info through the county, on a HEFER map.

You may, or may NOT know if you have any, we have a lot, most of which we hadn't got a clue about, they do not inform you

This knocks most of the 'better' options out, including SAM3, herbal leys. Reason, deep rooting herbs, may damage historic remains. Considering most of ours have been ploughed for decades, a bit of a laugh.

on the same fields, if we go from arable, to herbal ley, our water board, Wessex, will pay you the same amount, as SFI, £141 ac

the difference, water is looking to mitigate phosphate levels, thereby saving millions, the other is the 'environment'.

so we are shuffling round our original plan, to better fit around HEFER.

l would suggest, you get someone to help/submit your claim.

I am being nosy. The rule book says if a HEFER designation is found in a lan parcel that parcel cannot be entered as SAM3. But in most cases the designation is a part field, and clearly delineated. Is your FWAG person adhering to that? Or splitting parcels? Thanks.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I give up

Go on and advise folks to do stuff that's not in the handbook, see how much they think of you after they've spent double the amount on seed than they need to, and you still wash your hands of it when they come back in 2 years complaining the expensive mix hasn't grown!!!

No skin off my nose

I'll say it once more, there is the handbook that has to be followed and the guidance that can help if you've no f*c*i*g idea what you're doing. If the farmer in the scheme has half an idea of how to farm, they'll have half an idea of how to establish something to meet the aims of SFI.

, the volantery guidence is in the the handbook or a link to it
So dont acuse me of stating stuff thats not in there
As you say its up to farmers if the dont want to follow the guidence and choose their own mix

 

[2tractors]

the word of FWAG
you need to establish, and maintain, a ley with a mix of grass/herbs/legumes.
no specific mix quoted

under the voluntary guides, is where they suggest mixes, they are not mandatory.

one big obstacle that has arisen.

anyone looking to claim, has to check whether they have historic remains, on their farm/field.
you can get this info through the county, on a HEFER map.

You may, or may NOT know if you have any, we have a lot, most of which we hadn't got a clue about, they do not inform you

This knocks most of the 'better' options out, including SAM3, herbal leys. Reason, deep rooting herbs, may damage historic remains. Considering most of ours have been ploughed for decades, a bit of a laugh.

on the same fields, if we go from arable, to herbal ley, our water board, Wessex, will pay you the same amount, as SFI, £141 ac

the difference, water is looking to mitigate phosphate levels, thereby saving millions, the other is the 'environment'.

so we are shuffling round our original plan, to better fit around HEFER.

l would suggest, you get someone to help/submit your claim.

The HEFER issue is coming up on a lot of farms - you can get this amended with a Natural England consent form, have seen similar where 5 parcels were locked out of SAM 3 but with a consent form and a chat with the relevant heritage department in the council the maps were redrawn, just depends what's in the SSSI. Don't give up on SAM3 it may be ok if you ask.

 

[som farmer]

I am being nosy. The rule book says if a HEFER designation is found in a lan parcel that parcel cannot be entered as SAM3. But in most cases the designation is a part field, and clearly delineated. Is your FWAG person adhering to that? Or splitting parcels? Thanks.

The HEFER issue is coming up on a lot of farms - you can get this amended with a Natural England consent form, have seen similar where 5 parcels were locked out of SAM 3 but with a consent form and a chat with the relevant heritage department in the council the maps were redrawn, just depends what's in the SSSI. Don't give up on SAM3 it may be ok if you ask.

we have rather a lot coming under HEFER.
going to look and see if we can manipulate fields, to get around some of it, some of the areas cover several fields.

on our water board grant system, you can only get SAM3, on land going from arable, into herbs, payment rate is the same, just they are not governed by HEFER. A lot of ground going into SAM3 to start with, is in HEFER, , the only option available, is low input grass, at not a lot. So perhaps some dd spring corn.........................

our lady was saying, if in HEFER, not a chance of anything but low input. So some under that, will go into maize, which makes a complete mockery of the system.

just pleased son is working through it all, give me a right old headache otherwise. But with the sums of money involved, its definitely worth doing.

 

[Badshot]

, the volantery guidence is in the the handbook or a link to it
So dont acuse me of stating stuff thats not in there
As you say its up to farmers if the dont want to follow the guidence and choose their own mix

You were using the wrong guidance book for a start. SFI pilot is not applicable to SFI.

Then for some unknown reason you decide to ignore the fact it's guidance only, and is clearly stated that you do not have to follow it

I will leave it there, and leave you to find out for yourself in future.

 

[e3120]

The HEFER issue is coming up on a lot of farms - you can get this amended with a Natural England consent form, have seen similar where 5 parcels were locked out of SAM 3 but with a consent form and a chat with the relevant heritage department in the council the maps were redrawn, just depends what's in the SSSI. Don't give up on SAM3 it may be ok if you ask.

Just bounced against the HEFER issue this afternoon. Never thought anything of it, but seems 50ac of rig & furrow is designated. There's clover in it and I intended claiming NUM2 but don't think I'm allowed. Does ticking a box on t'interweb actually physically change the field?

 

[Samcowman]

we have rather a lot coming under HEFER.
going to look and see if we can manipulate fields, to get around some of it, some of the areas cover several fields.

on our water board grant system, you can only get SAM3, on land going from arable, into herbs, payment rate is the same, just they are not governed by HEFER. A lot of ground going into SAM3 to start with, is in HEFER, , the only option available, is low input grass, at not a lot. So perhaps some dd spring corn.........................

our lady was saying, if in HEFER, not a chance of anything but low input. So some under that, will go into maize, which makes a complete mockery of the system.

just pleased son is working through it all, give me a right old headache otherwise. But with the sums of money involved, it’s definitely worth doing.

We put a herbal pet in here on a field with a hefer just didn’t claim on it. See the payment as a bonus if it fits with your farming type rather than doing it for the payment.
would be nice if all water companies paid farmers for change of cropping use.

 

[som farmer]

the water board money, might last longer than the SFI money.

herbal leys or firmly on our system, whether subbed or not.

but if we can claim on anything, we will.

 

[som farmer]

Just bounced against the HEFER issue this afternoon. Never thought anything of it, but seems 50ac of rig & furrow is designated. There's clover in it and I intended claiming NUM2 but don't think I'm allowed. Does ticking a box on t'interweb actually physically change the field?

l don't think so, just have to check, with an expert !

 

[Great In Grass]

Just bounced against the HEFER issue this afternoon. Never thought anything of it, but seems 50ac of rig & furrow is designated. There's clover in it and I intended claiming NUM2 but don't think I'm allowed. Does ticking a box on t'interweb actually physically change the field?

My customers who are having a similar problem have been going back to NE with a specialist mixture less the deeper rooting species like Cocksfoot, Lucerne and Vetch for example.

Still waiting to hear back.

 

[e3120]

My customers who are having a similar problem have been going back to NE with a specialist mixture less the deeper rooting species like Cocksfoot, Lucerne and Vetch for example.

Still waiting to hear back.

I'm not intending to touch it. It's pretty viscous r&f. The clover is already there.

I might forego the 2 grand a year, rather than let NE have any say over my business.

 

[Great In Grass]

I'm not intending to touch it. It's pretty viscous r&f. The clover is already there.

I might forego the 2 grand a year, rather than let NE have any say over my business.

That may be very wise.

 

[hally]

I'm not intending to touch it. It's pretty viscous r&f. The clover is already there.

I might forego the 2 grand a year, rather than let NE have any say over my business.

Very difficult to overseed r&f, most drills and harrows just can't follow well enough for accurate seed depth

 

[Derrick Hughes]

£2.08 kg
Mixes vary
Any seed spotters out there
Sold tons of it over the years

 

[Derrick Hughes]

.

 

[e3120]

For patching purposes only!

 

[e3120]

Indeed. Had a cracking crop of stubble turnips once.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Is there a reqirment to mantain a Herbal Ley after the first year , given you can choose a new site every year ?