Seeing Less Blackgrass

[Clive]

Says the man without BG .

Best way is to grow grass for a couple of years and stop it setting seed

Maybe the man without black grass is the man without black grass for a reason ?

It does grow on our soil type if you want it to

 

[ajd132]

Maybe the man without black grass is the man without black grass for a reason ?

It does grow on our soil type if you want it to

You are hardly in a BG conductive situation farming sand in the west...

 

[Renaultman]

We will never win the war against Blackgrass, but we might win a few battles.
Dry years might help. I've often found that taller crops help too. It's not because the taller crop is hiding it - there definitely isn't as much BG in a taller crop.

Are we using too much PGR that exacerbates this problem?

Does Atlantis itself have far too much of a PGR effect, possibly making the situation worse if it's ability to actually kill BG isn't effective enough?

If BG grows taller than the crop, have we created a situation where the BG stunts the crop even further, therefore reducing the crop yield even more?

Did the late frosts we had this year, act as a natural PGR reducing the need to apply anything like as much as usual?

I firmly believe that taller crops out-compete the BG, reducing its ability to stunt yields. Therefore we must question our usage of PGR far more. Using something like CCC is not only cheaper but won't be as effective in cold weather, which could be a good thing. Forget Modus and the likes of Terpal etc.
But you have just got to risk that they will remain standing by harvest time.

Is it better to take that risk than end up with a very stunted yield and an even worse BG situation in the future?

Really bad BG infestations will actually pull the crop down and completely smother it as if it was lodged anyway!
This is even worse than combining a lodged but weed free crop.


In our own situation here, yes there is still some BG in the Wheat that is just now starting to show above the crop. A lot more will do so after this rain. But the Winter Barley (both conventional and Hybrid) grown on our worst BG fields look very clean still so far. They are of course one hell of a lot taller that the Wheat!

Edit:
Wherever (if ever!) I am going to continue growing Wheat (which will only ever be on our lowest BG infested land from now on and will only ever be in a 1st wheat situation), I shall be choosing the tallest, most lodging resistant varieties I can find. Septoria resistance will be an added bonus. These traits are far more important to me than so called top yield. BG will rob me of far more yield than any potentially higher yielding, but shorter variety could possibly provide in benefit.
Simples (if only!)

Is this a forage trader duplicate account

 

[rob1]

Maybe the man without black grass is the man without black grass for a reason ?

It does grow on our soil type if you want it to

Yes it will grow anywhere but it is a swamp grass so less likely on light dry land

 

[turbo]

We will never win the war against Blackgrass, but we might win a few battles.
Dry years might help. I've often found that taller crops help too. It's not because the taller crop is hiding it - there definitely isn't as much BG in a taller crop.

Are we using too much PGR that exacerbates this problem?

Does Atlantis itself have far too much of a PGR effect, possibly making the situation worse if it's ability to actually kill BG isn't effective enough?

If BG grows taller than the crop, have we created a situation where the BG stunts the crop even further, therefore reducing the crop yield even more?

Did the late frosts we had this year, act as a natural PGR reducing the need to apply anything like as much as usual?

I firmly believe that taller crops out-compete the BG, reducing its ability to stunt yields. Therefore we must question our usage of PGR far more. Using something like CCC is not only cheaper but won't be as effective in cold weather, which could be a good thing. Forget Modus and the likes of Terpal etc.
But you have just got to risk that they will remain standing by harvest time.

Is it better to take that risk than end up with a very stunted yield and an even worse BG situation in the future?

Really bad BG infestations will actually pull the crop down and completely smother it as if it was lodged anyway!
This is even worse than combining a lodged but weed free crop.


In our own situation here, yes there is still some BG in the Wheat that is just now starting to show above the crop. A lot more will do so after this rain. But the Winter Barley (both conventional and Hybrid) grown on our worst BG fields look very clean still so far. They are of course one hell of a lot taller that the Wheat!

Edit:
Wherever (if ever!) I am going to continue growing Wheat (which will only ever be on our lowest BG infested land from now on and will only ever be in a 1st wheat situation), I shall be choosing the tallest, most lodging resistant varieties I can find. Septoria resistance will be an added bonus. These traits are far more important to me than so called top yield. BG will rob me of far more yield than any potentially higher yielding, but shorter variety could possibly provide in benefit.
Simples (if only!)

I am trying belepi this year on a field that 3 years ago i lost half of it to bg,so far so good and i will know better tomorrow when flag leaf spray goes on. I must say having walked some of it today I have never seen such a big flag leaf and it looks like it's doing the job of smothering out what little bit of bg there is there

 

[franklin]

Spring cropping does not reduce BG. Its just growing crops that dont mind a bit of it. If you really want to see less, the answer for heavy land is grass. But then we all really know that.

 

[average farmer]

DD won't fix a grass weed problem and neither will late drilling imo - pee'ing in the wind springs to mind !

A proper rotation with a lot of diverse spring break crops and lots of different groups of actives in a zero till (ideally mixed ) farming system and you might just have a chance

I have black grass and by the looks of things we're getting a bit better at beating it. late drilling is no good! well timed drilling is by far better, you need a competitive crop.

in no order but things i've found really help.

good stale seed bed
work a good tilth after ru to kill any plants that are growing under the soil but the ru didnt touch.
drill at a high seed rate with a competitive plant.
pre em with foward backwards facing nozzels with plenty of water.
early fert to get a good strong plant before any spring emerging bg grows.
these are things I find help in a winter planted crop

But most of all its rotation, rotation, rotation as Clive says but not for the reason of a different group of actives but for the reasson of a different type of plant/competitiveness and sowing date.

rouging is also good

 

[snipe]

Don't find much if any bg in overlaps, extra fret seed spray and worked finer and it always yields the best too

 

[turbo]

I have black grass and by the looks of things we're getting a bit better at beating it. late drilling is no good! well timed drilling is by far better, you need a competitive crop.

in no order but things i've found really help.

good stale seed bed
work a good tilth after ru to kill any plants that are growing under the soil but the ru didnt touch.
drill at a high seed rate with a competitive plant.
pre em with foward backwards facing nozzels with plenty of water.
early fert to get a good strong plant before any spring emerging bg grows.
these are things I find help in a winter planted crop

But most of all its rotation, rotation, rotation as Clive says but not for the reason of a different group of actives but for the reasson of a different type of plant/competitiveness and sowing date.

rouging is also good

It depends what you call late drilling,I say anytime after the 20th oct till 1st nov is ideal time for drilling wheat for the best control of bg and my father would call it the normal time for drilling wheat,where things went wrong was drilling in september at the same time as the biggist flush of bg was coming.

 

[willy]

Spring cropping does not reduce BG. Its just growing crops that dont mind a bit of it. If you really want to see less, the answer for heavy land is grass. But then we all really know that.

Correct, infact I have my worst black grass control after s crops. My conclusion is osr at high seed rates to mitigate patches and throw the kitchen sink at it, and then drill wheat in October after it.

 

[rob1]

It depends what you call late drilling,I say anytime after the 20th oct till 1st nov is ideal time for drilling wheat for the best control of bg and my father would call it the normal time for drilling wheat,where things went wrong was drilling in september at the same time as the biggist flush of bg was coming.

We find here that we get more spring germinating bg now, crops whisper clean at end feb can grow a lot by now, especially if the crop is not thick, late direct drilling is not the answer on heavy land in the wet west

 

[spikeislander]

I'm yet to go through the wheats with t2 but have walked them fairly well. I must say I'm reasonably happy with the levels I'm seeing for our heavy clay land. And driving around I think in the next few weeks there is going to be plenty examples of farms where attention to detail has been a bit less.
I'm not saying we are spotless , far from it but spraying out patches in previous years, later drilling, bringing spring crops into the rotation, increased seed rates , stale seedbeds and a very robust chemical programme have I think meant a step in the right direction. The levels we have this year are probably rouguable on first wheats and low enough in second wheats going into a spring crop to be acceptable.
I think avadex has done a good job this year and we have not used any Atlantis.
I must add that this is only one year and we are far from letting off the throttle as next year could be different.

 

[turbo]

I'm yet to go through the wheats with t2 but have walked them fairly well. I must say I'm reasonably happy with the levels I'm seeing for our heavy clay land. And driving around I think in the next few weeks there is going to be plenty examples of farms where attention to detail has been a bit less.
I'm not saying we are spotless , far from it but spraying out patches in previous years, later drilling, bringing spring crops into the rotation, increased seed rates , stale seedbeds and a very robust chemical programme have I think meant a step in the right direction. The levels we have this year are probably rouguable on first wheats and low enough in second wheats going into a spring crop to be acceptable.
I think avadex has done a good job this year and we have not used any Atlantis.
I must add that this is only one year and we are far from letting off the throttle as next year could be different.

About the same here and it's the first time I have not used altantis,like you say it might not work next year but it's worked well here for the last 3 years,it's bloody hard to sit on your hands and not drill in September or early October but driving round now proves you were right

 

[radar]

Drove around this morning and would appear despite not using Atlantis blackgrass control seems OK, although will see better after driving over it all for T2's. One field has half a dozen room sizes patches which would be worth spraying off - obvious though around the headland margins what the BG levels would be in a untreated crop!

 

[Clive]

You are hardly in a BG conductive situation farming sand in the west...

We don't just farm sand these days, and there is plenty of blackgrsss in this area and on these soil types now. There is much lighter land than ours further west where carrots have bought in bg seed that have terrible issues

We have some Bg on some land taken on in the last couple of years but it's not a problem and populations are declining quickly, farming the surface only and 40% late drilled spring break crop rotation being the reason imo

ROTATION ! There was a reason that was the foundation of any farming system for thousands of years before any of us became involved

The way farmers talk about bg today anyone would think it didn't exist until ten years ago ! How did our grandfathers cope ? They didn't even have glyphosate !

 

[turbo]

We don't just farm sand these days, and there is plenty of blackgrsss in this area and on these soil types now. There is much lighter land than ours further west where carrots have bought in bg seed that have terrible issues

We have some Bg on some land taken on in the last couple of years but it's not a problem and populations are declining quickly, farming the surface only and 40% late drilled spring break crop rotation being the reason imo

ROTATION ! There was a reason that was the foundation of any farming system for thousands of years before any of us became involved

The way farmers talk about bg today anyone would think it didn't exist until ten years ago ! How did our grandfathers cope ? They didn't even have glyphosate !

Our grandfathers used the plough and never drilled a wheat crop in September and new chemicals were coming out to help,was reading about bg control in the 60 or 70 s and how a new chemical would sort it,it was called wheat clean and dad says it was the first time there wasn't no rubbish in the crop come harvest

 

[ajd132]

Yes agree with rotation, we have 1200 acres of spring crops this year which is likely to go up, father finds it stressful though. And like someone said earlier drilling wheat last two weeks of October seems to work quite well. I also think if we moved to a horsch sprayer with the boom control Oli we would get much better chemical effocacy, I can see where the norac hasn't worked well enough on our current sprayer

 

[Clive]

Our grandfathers used the plough and never drilled a wheat crop in September and new chemicals were coming out to help,was reading about bg control in the 60 or 70 s and how a new chemical would sort it,it was called wheat clean and dad says it was the first time there wasn't no rubbish in the crop come harvest

A plough is no better at sorting bg than glyphosate is. In fact glyphosate is better as it kills rather than just hides / mixes the problem like a plough does

If a plough is so dam good why do farmers that use them still have grass weed issues ?

Waste of diesel, hp and time in a combinable crop rotation today imo and as relevant to modern at as the horse and cart !

 

[turbo]

A plough is no better at sorting bg than glyphosate is

If a plough is so dam good why do farmers that use them still have grass weed issues ?

Waste of diesel, hp and time in a combinable crop rotation today imo and as relevant to modern at as the horse and cart !

So is scratching the top or just drilling straight into uncultivated soil,when it's worked here as long as the plough has i will think you are on to something,I love the way any thing you don't do is a waste of diesel were as I think pissing about with cover crops are a waste of money but that's my view.

 

[Bruce Almighty]

So is scratching the top or just drilling straight into uncultivated soil,when it's worked here as long as the plough has i will think you are on to something,I love the way any thing you don't do is a waste of diesel were as I think pissing about with cover crops are a waste of money but that's my view.

We plough for everything except OSR which is subsoiler sown.
The soil varies from red marl to sandy loam, we don't get blackgrass on the light land
Blackgrass likes the wet & I'm sure the dry winter has reduced the amount of black grass this time.

We have less blackgrass than our min-till neighbours
Our rotation includes wheat, rape, oats maize & leys
We are moving towards some min-till with later sowing, we are aware that we are bringing some blackgrass back up by ploughing every year