Should vaccinations against life-threatening diseases be compulsory?

[ollie989898]

You state there will not be 100% efficacy - an obvious fact - and go on to say that, because this is so, having some more who are also potentially infectable / infective is not a problem (just think that through again )... and you reckon my argument is non-nonsensical...

The vaccine isn't 100% Adding a few more folk to the list of those who don't have effective immunity and what odds does it make?

 

[Mek]

If you choose not to have a vaccination then you must also choose not to have any treatment for diseases arising from the lack of vaccination.

 

[robs1]

If you choose not to have a vaccination then you must also choose not to have any treatment for diseases arising from the lack of vaccination.

Do drunks not get treated in A&E do smokers not get cancer treatment, do drug addicts not get help , do fat people not get offered free gym membership.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Wonder why they think that

Most vaccines are less effective in older people as the immune system slows up. For example the flu jag given to older people is often more concentrated to compensate for this.

 

[robs1]

Most vaccines are less effective in older people as the immune system slows up. For example the flu jag given to older people is often more concentrated to compensate for this.

Less effective is different from not effective though, obviously as we age our immune systems are slower to respond so flu vaccines etc get immunity before actual infection I just wondered why they think this one wont do the same

 

[ollie989898]

Do drunks not get treated in A&E do smokers not get cancer treatment, do drug addicts not get help , do fat people not get offered free gym membership.

One of the fundamental policies of the NHS is that it will attempt to treat you no matter how you came to be in the need of treatment. If you won't treat smokers, then where do you draw the line? Downhill mountain bikers and extreme sports enthusiasts who are perpetually having skeletal smash ups? People who are chronically poor and can't feed their kids properly? People who can't manage their diabetes well? Gang members with stab wounds?

It is right that there is emphasis on healthy living and preventative measures, they save money after all.

 

[Danllan]

The vaccine isn't 100% Adding a few more folk to the list of those who don't have effective immunity and what odds does it make?

It makes no odds whatsoever, none at all in 'the big picture', unless you or yours are one of those it affects...

 

[ollie989898]

It makes no odds whatsoever, none at all in 'the big picture', unless you or yours are one of those it affects...

There is no big picture! Why you insist on over complicating this I have no clue.

1. Vaccines don't need 100% acceptance or efficacy to obtain practical herd immunity, for some diseases, even 50% of a population is enough.

2. For a small percentage of the population, they never gain immunity from a vaccination anyway- not that it matters because point made in #1.

3. An even smaller percentage of the population can't have vaccines due to underlying medical reasons. Not that it matters because #1.

4. Given #2 + #3, what odds does a few more people who refuse the vaccine? Public health is largely protected because of #1, obviously the more the merrier though, hence the emphasis on public health campaigns and vaccine programs in the first place.

PS

See this table below. Not huge changes in numbers, in fact, relatively tiny. The rising numbers of child obesity, child diabetes and terrible dental problems are more of a concern in my eyes.

Confirmed cases of measles, mumps and rubella in England and Wales: 1996 to 2022

www.gov.uk

 

[Danllan]

...what odds does a few more people who refuse the vaccine...

As I wrote, it makes no difference, unless you or yours are one of those affected.

Re-hashing herd immunity is fine, it's statistically correct, inarguable even, for the herd... but that simply won't wash when you write off other unnecessary deaths.

However few they may be, if you're fine with such deaths, meaning those which could be avoided, that's your decision. I think that if the loss of an innocent life can be prevented, it should be.

 

[Mek]

Do drunks not get treated in A&E do smokers not get cancer treatment, do drug addicts not get help , do fat people not get offered free gym membership.

They wouldn’t if I was in charge. If anyone does themselves harm they get no sympathy from me. I used to have a GP who wouldn’t help smokers other than the bare minimum. Anyone who does dangerous sports should have insurance.

 

[Danllan]

They wouldn’t if I was in charge. If anyone does themselves harm they get no sympathy from me. I used to have a GP who wouldn’t help smokers other than the bare minimum.

How about attempted suicides, self-harmers etc.?

 

[hoff135]

About half the people ive spoken to about this say they are not getting vaccinated. As for the argument about those people being a cost to the nhs, well who knows, maybe we will find out in 10 years that the vaccine is causing cancer or something else.

If you want to stop people getting treatment that dont get vaccinated then i want a cut in national insurance for those that dont

 

[arcobob]

Most vaccines are less effective in older people as the immune system slows up. For example the flu jag given to older people is often more concentrated to compensate for this.

I thought the dose given to older people more correctly reflected the more diverse immunity that they had built up over the years. It thus targetetted new strains with more intensity and left out some of the older ones. Have I been conned ?
I really think that if you make covid vaccination compulsory a certain proportion of people will smell a rat for reasons mentioned in previous posts. On the other hand those that refuse it have only got themselves to blame if they catch it. If it confers immunity those who have the immunity will have nothing to worry about. On balance I think it should be left to personal choice.

 

[Mek]

How about attempted suicides, self-harmers etc.?

If they have a mental illness of course they should be treated.

 

[arcobob]

How about attempted suicides, self-harmers etc.?

All seem to be on the increase and the shrinks don`t have an answer. Again a case of treating the symptoms and not the cause.

 

[MiJ]

Compulsory to dip twice a year and operators exposure

= less Lyme disease.

 

[ollie989898]

They wouldn’t if I was in charge. If anyone does themselves harm they get no sympathy from me. I used to have a GP who wouldn’t help smokers other than the bare minimum. Anyone who does dangerous sports should have insurance.

A GP not helping people who smoke- why is he in the job then? Serious question.

As for self-harm, people who do that are clearly ill in some capacity, quite possibly at least in terms of their mental health. Why refuse to treat people for that? It's not like they way up one day and think today is the day I hurt myself and end up in a coma or dead- it could (and unfortunately does) happen to anyone. I indirectly know of three people in the farming community in this region who have tragically passed away in recent years due to suicide. It's an outright tragedy that may well have been prevented if they got the right help along the way, attitudes such as yours only serve to make it harder for people in similar situations I'm afraid.

 

[ollie989898]

About half the people ive spoken to about this say they are not getting vaccinated. As for the argument about those people being a cost to the nhs, well who knows, maybe we will find out in 10 years that the vaccine is causing cancer or something else.

If you want to stop people getting treatment that dont get vaccinated then i want a cut in national insurance for those that dont

Are you describing people who will refuse a Covid-19 vaccine you mean or rather will refuse vaccines in general?

 

[ollie989898]

All seem to be on the increase and the shrinks don`t have an answer. Again a case of treating the symptoms and not the cause.

Accessing mental health resources can be extremely difficult for many people, even more so in rural locations. The days of people being freely admitted to mental health units are long gone- the bed space just does not exist.

 

[hoff135]

Are you describing people who will refuse a Covid-19 vaccine you mean or rather will refuse vaccines in general?

Im talking about covid vaccine. A lot of people including myself dont want it. We feel something that has been done in a few months has not had time to be tested properly. I would certainly be waiting a while before even considering it.

If people want to remove our nhs care because of this then i guess we should pay less tax?