Smart potato cultivation system

[richard hammond]

Thanks for your reply. I know the soil looks light but there is enough clay in it to produce a packing sample that we will store to June. If you look closely at the power Harrow tines in the second video you will see they are not going that fast. We tested the field with a penetrometer and found no compaction or pan so felt there was no need for any deeper loosening. If there was a need we could either fit loosening tines in front of the p/h or subsoil as a separate operation. Why a p/h over a bedtiller? If you dig away the loose soil and compare the pan left by the two machines the p/h one seems less smeared. Yes you right about the high rate of wear on the p/h tines, but would bedtiller blades not wear at a similar rate if they were working into unworked stubble? We have had a set of p/h tines coated with diamond dust and they seem to be lasting, but have not done a big enough area yet to tell. The cost of the high wear rate is much less than two or three passes with some sort of tines cultivator. Why do people seem not to use bedtillers straight into stubble as I believe some can be? Leaving the stubble untouched until just before you want to separate it means it is very weather safe either from not drying out too much or from be coming a mush if it rains. The system is incredible simple and easy to manage as you can just send the two machines off together to get the field ready for planting.

Its a system that suits you, but will not suit all producers, all you are talking about is soil management , no new concept if you are environmentally aware already.

 

[Clive]

Oooohhhh! Are we monetising 'forum wisdom' now?

why not I guess ? knowlage has a value and many farmers already pay agents and consultants for it yet some of the best knowledge comes from experience of other farmers

We are currently trialing a forum addon that would allow members to post “pay per view” video content or live events/ webinars , run training courses online with tracking viewers to prove a course is completed etc

all sorts of possibilities like CPD points for NROSO etc without having to leave the farm to agronomy or planning / diversification advice or financial/ system change consultancy

Would be interesting to hear feedback on the idea ? does demand exist ?

 

[chester]

On our light, if there is no pan/compaction we do one pass with a Lemken Karat, Bedform, separate. We find by only working shallowly it helps to stop stuff sinking if we have a wet harvest. The bedformer is attached to a Simba St bar with one leg each behind the tractor wheels as this is the only part of the field that we need to work deeply iyswim.
If we need to subsoil the field we have tried to only subsoil where the rows will be so we leave the wheeling firm which helps keep the sprayer etc afloat.

 

[Spud]

why not I guess ? knowlage has a value and many farmers already pay agents and consultants for it yet some of the best knowledge comes from experience of other farmers

We are currently trialing a forum addon that would allow members to post “pay per view” video content or live events/ webinars , run training courses online with tracking viewers to prove a course is completed etc

all sorts of possibilities like CPD points for NROSO etc without having to leave the farm to agronomy or planning / diversification advice or financial/ system change consultancy

Would be interesting to hear feedback on the idea ? does demand exist ?

How do envisage it working Clive? How would viewers know what they were about to purchase?
Are you thinking pay per 'article' view, or a YouTube style situation whereby revenue is earned from advertisers rather than viewers?
Personally I'm not averse to paying for advise, but a forum is more about opinion & chat.
I guess what I'm saying is it'd need to be good value or would soon die a death

 

[chester]

Good luck. If you're able to power harrow straight in it's kind land indeed.
As power harrow blades wear, they get shorter, which reduces clearance for soil to pass through, as the trough is essentially lower to the ground to maintain working depth.
For me your system is a long way from weather proof - as soon as it rains you're stopped, I couldn't entertain bare stubble over winter either, need a cc on it, which would vastly reduce the need for cultivation anyway.
ime you have to do serious acres with a cultivator to spend as much on wearing metal as a bedtiller or power harrow.
I don't like any form of rotary cultivation pre potatoes if I can help it, it's far too easy to create a pan, but sometimes it's necessary I'll admit.
Ten years ago we used to ridge up with a tiller. Far too expensive and soil destructive to tolerate now.

I agree with your point about when power Harrow tine wear, which we seem to have reduced by welding Ferobide on the tips and coating them with diamond dust.When they get too short we save them for cereal ground.
I don’t really see your pov regarding weather proofing as I would have thought untouched stubble would take more rain than worked ground.
Yes you would have to do serious acres with a cultivator to equal the power Harrow tine wear but it’s the total cost of the job that matters and each pass will be costing ££.
In my opinion the jury is still out on the over winter cover crops, when we tried them we found the soil took longer to dry out and the vegetation slowed the separator.
Thanks for replying it’s good to be challenged.

 

[Spud]

I agree with your point about when power Harrow tine wear, which we seem to have reduced by welding Ferobide on the tips and coating them with diamond dust.When they get too short we save them for cereal ground.
I don’t really see your pov regarding weather proofing as I would have thought untouched stubble would take more rain than worked ground.
Yes you would have to do serious acres with a cultivator to equal the power Harrow tine wear but it’s the total cost of the job that matters and each pass will be costing ££.
In my opinion the jury is still out on the over winter cover crops, when we tried them we found the soil took longer to dry out and the vegetation slowed the separator.
Thanks for replying it’s good to be challenged.

My point re CC's is one of soil health & organic matter. This has reduced nematicides by 70%+, and bedtilling by nearly 80%. Keeping the physical OM in the row has improved roe structure and saleable yield considerably, by reducing capping cracking and slumping, allowing better infiltration but yet holding water better.
We usually top the CC's end of Feb or thereabouts to let them breakdown a bit so go through the destoner instead of into the trench.
In your situation a tiller would chop a cc mix to a more destoner friendly level than a power harrow would.
Good to read the experiments & methods of others - there is always a better way!
Our first pass is a Simba TL cultivator

 

[PSQ]

We are currently trialing a forum addon that would allow members to post “pay per view” video content or live events/ webinars

Would be interesting to hear feedback on the idea ? does demand exist ?

So it’s essentially going to be TFF’s dirtier version of ‘OnlyFans.com’?

 

[chester]

My point re CC's is one of soil health & organic matter. This has reduced nematicides by 70%+, and bedtilling by nearly 80%. Keeping the physical OM in the row has improved roe structure and saleable yield considerably, by reducing capping cracking and slumping, allowing better infiltration but yet holding water better.
We usually top the CC's end of Feb or thereabouts to let them breakdown a bit so go through the destoner instead of into the trench.
In your situation a tiller would chop a cc mix to a more destoner friendly level than a power harrow would.
Good to read the experiments & methods of others - there is always a better way!
Our first pass is a Simba TL cultivator

With our cc’s we ate the off with sheep Jan/Feb ok on the light Sandy ground but found there feet compacted the surface on the heavier ground which led to a lot of clods in the trench. I feel we are still feeling our way with cc’s.
A Simba Tl looks very similar to our Lemken Karat. We tried one first with the winged feet but found they smeared too much so changed them to a traditional c shaped tine which gives us a good boiling action without the smearing.
The controversial bit I haven’t been brave enough to share with you until now is that the power Harrow in the video’s is only working 125mm deep. I know this sounds crazy but we still get 75mm of separated soil beneath the seed and 190mm above and the wheeling depth after destoning is 200mm.Tin hat on.

 

[Spud]

With our cc’s we ate the off with sheep Jan/Feb ok on the light Sandy ground but found there feet compacted the surface on the heavier ground which led to a lot of clods in the trench. I feel we are still feeling our way with cc’s.
A Simba Tl looks very similar to our Lemken Karat. We tried one first with the winged feet but found they smeared too much so changed them to a traditional c shaped tine which gives us a good boiling action without the smearing.
The controversial bit I haven’t been brave enough to share with you until now is that the power Harrow in the video’s is only working 125mm deep. I know this sounds crazy but we still get 75mm of separated soil beneath the seed and 190mm above and the wheeling depth after destoning is 200mm.Tin hat on.

Lol nowt to be afraid of!
Similar experience with sheep here, not my best idea.
Same experience re wings on the TL, much better off.
5" deep will fill a power harrow bed so I'm not suprised really. How wide & deep are the ridges? You're doing well to not pull much kelter up from below that'd spoil the bed.
Have you tried not destoning? Very little coming off the cross conveyor in your vid

 

[chester]

Lol nowt to be afraid of!
Similar experience with sheep here, not my best idea.
Same experience re wings on the TL, much better off.
5" deep will fill a power harrow bed so I'm not suprised really. How wide & deep are the ridges? You're doing well to not pull much kelter up from below that'd spoil the bed.
Have you tried not destoning? Very little coming off the cross conveyor in your vid

The honest answer is I don’t know how wide and deep the ridges are in mm but we use a Structural with hood two thirds open and the bed fills it. Please see photo of headland attached.
By Kelter, I take it you mean raw unworked ground? If we do bring some up we usually do the first pass with the power Harrow with the Karat in behind with only four narrow legs on, two behind each tractor wheel where the bedformer will be. Then we do a second pass with the p/h and bed former. The beauty of doing this is the tractor wheels will crush the clods brought up by the first pass. We only have to do this in exceptional circumstances on parts of the field that we probably should not be growing spuds on, but needs must sometimes.
Yes we have tried not destoning on a couple small fields. The trouble is most of our fields will have patches of sandstone or not very friendly soil and the system needs to be robust enough to cope with the worst part of a field. Also when we tried not destoning we had to adjust lots to get it to work and then adjust it back agin when we had to

destone and this was a right ball ache.

 

[renewablejohn]

Sorry but I am struggling to see anything smart. Will stick with my no till method as it works for me.

 

[chester]

Sorry but I am struggling to see anything smart. Will stick with my no till method as it works for me.

The smart bit is we are not working any deeper than is absolutely necessary, only working parts of the field in their zones ie where the bed is we are only working it 125mm deep but where the bedformer is going we are working it up to 225mm deep. By doing it like this we are maintaining the structural integrity of the soil so it can support the weight of subsequent machinery passes.
It also reduces fuel consumption during soil preparation and speeds the job up by 50% and is easier to manage as we are not making multiple passes.We producing a better seed bed by not bringing up unwanted raw soil leading to a better quality crop. We are working above the plastic soil layer so avoiding pans hence better yields. All this largely stems from work carried out by Cuf and latterly Ahdb monitor farms.
Are you really doing no till spuds? If so how is that going? Would be interested to hear.

 

[Will 1594]

The smart bit is we are not working any deeper than is absolutely necessary, only working parts of the field in their zones ie where the bed is we are only working it 125mm deep but where the bedformer is going we are working it up to 225mm deep. By doing it like this we are maintaining the structural integrity of the soil so it can support the weight of subsequent machinery passes.
It also reduces fuel consumption during soil preparation and speeds the job up by 50% and is easier to manage as we are not making multiple passes.We producing a better seed bed by not bringing up unwanted raw soil leading to a better quality crop. We are working above the plastic soil layer so avoiding pans hence better yields. All this largely stems from work carried out by Cuf and latterly Ahdb monitor farms.
Are you really doing no till spuds? If so how is that going? Would be interested to hear.

Aye , just Get crawler with agriweld 11 leg deep tine with ridgers on back and straight into light medium land after sheep been on , Sub soiler headlands , might bed till heavyer bits of filed even if means backing down baulks just to do odd little bits has to have separator through it for all the flint for salads

 

[SilliamWhale]

So it’s essentially going to be TFF’s dirtier version of ‘OnlyFans.com’?

I'd pay good money to see @Baldrick keep his tracky bottoms on...

 

[Spud]

Sorry but I am struggling to see anything smart. Will stick with my no till method as it works for me.

Tell us more John!

 

[Iben]

The smart bit is we are not working any deeper than is absolutely necessary, only working parts of the field in their zones ie where the bed is we are only working it 125mm deep but where the bedformer is going we are working it up to 225mm deep. By doing it like this we are maintaining the structural integrity of the soil so it can support the weight of subsequent machinery passes.
It also reduces fuel consumption during soil preparation and speeds the job up by 50% and is easier to manage as we are not making multiple passes.We producing a better seed bed by not bringing up unwanted raw soil leading to a better quality crop. We are working above the plastic soil layer so avoiding pans hence better yields. All this largely stems from work carried out by Cuf and latterly Ahdb monitor farms.
Are you really doing no till spuds? If so how is that going? Would be interested to hear.

I take it you are mostly on stone free soil? Our stoney/gravely soil means it all has to be destoned to full depth or its damaged potatoes at harvest and possibly a bent share on the harvester.

 

[renewablejohn]

Tell us more John!

Cant do that as I am already accused of cpming across as a "Guru" Maybe I should charge for the info then I could be a proper "Guru".

 

[Spud]

Cant do that as I am already accused of cpming across as a "Guru" Maybe I should charge for the info then I could be a proper "Guru".

Drop me a DM if you like

 

[DrWazzock]

Crikey. A couple times over with Bomford superflow, then power Harrow the bejesus out of it. Planter with two ladies on the back, ridge up, pull down when weedy before shoots appear, ridge back up again, spray 47 times for blight then harvest. 30 tons per acre and bobs your uncle all done with about £3000 worth of kit including the DB1494 tractor after tea time.
36” rows.

 

[alomy75]

Are you really doing no till spuds? If so how is that going? Would be interested to hear.

Yes but in your words (ish)….what would you be willing to pay for such guidance!?