So, if it’s bug*ered, why aren’t farms for sale?

[Weasel]

Maybe some of it, but not here. Our village has been downgraded from a development hub, as Shropshire council prefer more houses to be built in the towns. House building in Shrewsbury has gone mad. Just a shame the infrastructure like hospitals can’t cope.

Perfect, my hill farms in a place of national interest so won't be planted.

 

[le bon paysan]

Got a AHA landlord that makes my life difficult, so I leave for free, dont know how you get them to pay compo?

This is why you make the opening with a specialist tenants agent like Davis Meade.

 

[glasshouse]

that';s working on the assumption that the asset is paid for, and not expected to be earning.


there would be AHA landlords who, when major repairs come round, must have to dig deep.
If they're debt free, then they plunder the war chest...if not.....

I do my utmost to ensure I'm a profitable tenant every year,
although I know of others -quoted elsewhere here too- who push their landlords to spend the rent on the farm.
In some cases, asking for capital expenditure they could never afford if the property was theirs, and many times the annual rent.

I would prefer if my landlord saw doing business with me as a means of income, rather than a (possibly resented) expenditure.

Where do such landlords reside?
Unicorn land?

 

[multi power]

Clive, I admire your positive attitude, I really do. You look at farming as a business, not a right or a lifestyle I think, as do I. Most of the time, anyway.

But picture this.

You have a 300 acre farm. Inherited. Built up by your father. Mixture of grade 2, mostly 3, and some rougher bits.

Sibling(s) to pay off who are aware that the farm is worth a few million, on paper.

Without subsidies, what’s the income from wheat, barley and a few sheep going to be, realistically? In a good year it’s ok, you’ll turn over 100k. But in a not so good year, it’s half that. And you haven’t paid yourself a wage yet.

Yes, you can make money from owned land. But often, not very much. Maybe not enough to rent some more, and buy more kit, and have more debt, and rent some more to farm to service the debt. It’s not always an option. But you could sell it, buy those rental houses, get yourself a fairly stress free job that paid you 30k, even when you’re on holiday, and not really have very much to worry about at all.

I’m just curious as to why more farm owning farmers haven’t chosen to do this.

Or you could just rent out the 300 acres for what £60k a year and have your nice easy £30k job

 

[Bertram]

Or you could just rent out the 300 acres for what £60k a year and have your nice easy £30k job

Or could I? 300 acre estate owned farm close to me has just been re-let after the end of an AHA. Only one party interested, and from a fair distance away. Don’t know the details but it’s a short FBT I think. Estate assumed neighbours would be fighting each other for the farm but no one wanted it.

So it does rather depend on location and ground. I don’t think it’s a given that land will always rent out.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Or could I? 300 acre estate owned farm close to me has just been re-let after the end of an AHA. Only one party interested, and from a fair distance away. Don’t know the details but it’s a short FBT I think. Estate assumed neighbours would be fighting each other for the farm but no one wanted it.

So it does rather depend on location and ground. I don’t think it’s a given that land will always rent out.

It will be the first time in history it doesn't then

 

[glasshouse]

Or could I? 300 acre estate owned farm close to me has just been re-let after the end of an AHA. Only one party interested, and from a fair distance away. Don’t know the details but it’s a short FBT I think. Estate assumed neighbours would be fighting each other for the farm but no one wanted it.

So it does rather depend on location and ground. I don’t think it’s a given that land will always rent out.

Shows how stupid the estate are
The neighbours obviously know what the ground can do, and dont want to compromise their rent negotiations
Plus the new incomer wont last

 

[multi power]

Shows how stupid the estate are
The neighbours obviously know what the ground can do, and dont want to compromise their rent negotiations
Plus the new incomer wont last

They will get it next time for half the price

 

[egbert]

Where do such landlords reside?
Unicorn land?

I might be wrong, but you might have a coloured opinion from bad experience

 

[egbert]

It will be the first time in history it doesn't then

er....20s/30s?

 

[glasshouse]

I might be wrong, but you might have a coloured opinion from bad experience

Scottish landlords specialise in letting buildings fall down,
Maintainance is not on their agenda.
It always puzzled me, until i discovered that they had seldom paid to build them, so couldnt care less.

 

[chaffcutter]

The short FBT’s are a problem, it’s an incentive for people to ignore the long term condition of it in favour of maximum returns for a few years.

We gave some up that we had been gradually improving but the next FBT was only 3 years and it needed everything in quantity, we tried to get the agent ( for the Church Commissioners, the country’s worst landlords imo) to let it longer term but no chance, Better off without improving land for someone else’s benefit.

 

[glasshouse]

The short FBT’s are a problem, it’s an incentive for people to ignore the long term condition of it in favour of maximum returns for a few years.

We gave some up that we had been gradually improving but the next FBT was only 3 years and it needed everything in quantity, we tried to get the agent ( for the Church Commissioners, the country’s worst landlords imo) to let it longer term but no chance, Better off without improving land for someone else’s benefit.

That was the great mistake of fbt s
Large landowners like the church and crown should be using AHA

 

[kiwi pom]

I know one factory just up the road from here that won’t employ ex farmers/farm workers as they’re too disruptive in the work environment, complaining other staff are lazy, don’t get on with the job and telling them straight, there are plenty of factory workers who want to do no more than they have to to get through the week and pick up their payslip.
Not that they’re all like that of course but in my experience every profession has a range of abilities from the very best to the downright useless and that most certainly isn’t confined to low skilled/ unskilled workers.

Yes it can be quite difficult going from a situation where you've worked by/for yourself or in a small team to suddenly have to work within a larger company.
Rip s**t and bust, or doing it your own way just doesn't work, nor does walking in the door and accusing everyone of being lazy. Some people find it very difficult to follow a procedure or a way of working that someone else has devised.
Fitting in somewhere different can be a skill in itself.

 

[graham99]

Plenty of farms on the open market and a fair few for-sale on the quiet too. Pretty sure alot of farms were worth more 18mths ago than they are today.

if china had more money, there would be a lot farms sold up by the bank.
and if the bank sells , to many farms, to fast and crash the market. then the bank fails ,or if the bank is in the UK ,the tax payer bails out the bank

 

[graham99]

In my opinion, which many of you will probably disagree with, if you can't make a profit farming with your current system you should change system or sell up. Business is survival of the fittest after all. I know plenty of farmers who are making a tidy profit just by doing whatever their system is very well. Also know farmers who complain it's all gone tits up but go shooting twice a week, hunting, have 2 holidays a year and employ enough staff to run a farm twice as big as the one they have. If you can't make money you should look at yourself first. There is money to be made. Just depends if you want to be highly profitable or farm the way you want to farm and not focus on profits.

traveling ag rep's are very hard on self contained farming systems

 

[Agrivator]

One advantage of remaining on a farm - either as owner or tenant is that:

1. You have house rent free.

2. A proportion of the running costs of the house can go through the business.

3. To buy or rent a similar house could cost over £250,000 to buy, or £8400/year to rent.

4. Once you're out of farming (especially for a Yorkshireman) you might have nowt to moan about

 

[graham99]

I agree: they distort the game and any belief they lower the price of food is totally false. I do not believe that any industry has ever benefited from the long term implementation of subsidies or government handouts.

i think the banks have collected a lot of interest of business's of all type's that have been getting subs.
in fact as well as collecting interest ,the banks have been getting the biggest sub in town

 

[graham99]

I have never understood how letting your farm or letting somebody contract farm it can possibly help when times get really hard.

If there isn't enough profit for me farming my own land land then how the heck will there be enough when there are two businesses drawing out of the same pot?

For this reason I believe that subs actually allow this dual occupation of the land and their removal (if it happens) might actually require people to think hard and take the job back in house or get out.

I predict a massive sell off of Ag land if subs go.

do you know what happened to a lot the bankrupt house's over in Ireland .
a lot of them were brought up cheep, by hedge fund's.
you will find the hedge fund's now need the farms .
to keep the endless growth god alive.

 

[egbert]

Scottish landlords specialise in letting buildings fall down,
Maintainance is not on their agenda.
It always puzzled me, until i discovered that they had seldom paid to build them, so couldnt care less.

It's OK Glasshouse, if there's a post brexit price collapse in land values, it'll be worse in Scotland, with all the crap thrown at landlords by the snp.
You'll be able to buy whole glens....then you can be the laird.