So, if it’s bug*ered, why aren’t farms for sale?

[Bury the Trash]

come on fella...tell me how and where this is happening?
Mass evictions? I'm surprised it's not nationally newsworthy.

I say again, I hear -and I do keep a weather eye on it- of complaints when a long term tenant doesn't want to leave come the end.
But thats not what you seem to be talking about.

and how is this being funded other than grant aid for planting which is available to anyone controlling the land.

As we discussed, you clearly have had bad experiences, but it might do you no end of good to recognise that it's not always as you have seen.


as for blankets of sitka?...... my views are complex- like the subject- for this one post.
I'm a multi-generational hill farmer (500 years plus on the same hills), and I have also planted bits of farmland all my adult life -just back now from putting 200 eucalyptus in, on steep lowland freehold of mine...i am at that cutting edge for once!

There's a place for it, although UK agri and forestry has a historic separation you don't find in most euro countries.
Trees are just another crop.
The highly productive blankets of sitka are an eco-desert, and not popular for that reason.
(and it's increasingly recognised within the industry that breaking up species and age classes is a much safer way to proceed, although that has to be balanced with labour availability/economic potential/ and the very few species that will tolerate the exposure that sitka does)

The tax break planting in the 70s and 80s have kick started a huge home based industry.
The employment and balance of payments suggests we have nationally done the right thing overall by going down this route.
The fact that - in several cases- different people have got the new work, and the trade is increasingly going through a tiny number of expanded corporate interests isn't good for PR, but is a reflection of reality.

The fact that so many feel aggrieved reflects several aspects of the above. And I can't right all of those 'wrongs' for you, sorry.

Looking in from the outside, land for planting in Scotland is looking cheap, and the business has loads of potential.
Why don't you buy some and plant your own? It would appear to be yielding £100/acre after all expenses once established.

What type of Eucalypt is it if you dont mind asking ? Something like Snow Gum that will stick the frost ?

 

[glasshouse]

I can appreciate your point of view but there is no law that dictates what a land owner can or cannot do with his property?

No such law is needed
Simply direct the forestry grants properly to plant more sympathetically to the community and
Give larger grants to individual farmers who plant small scale

 

[Agrivator]

Do a search ''trees versus grassland carbon sequestration''.

Why have we been brainwashed into assuming that artificially created forestry will sequestrate more carbon than the grassland which it replaces?

If you fly over Britain, at least on a clear day, it is amazing to see the amount of frees already growing, so why on earth do we need more? We don't need any more pit props, we could use silage wrap to create nail-free multi-trip pallets and so replace one-trip wooden pallets, and wood-chip boilers could be replaced by natural gas from fracking.

One sensible but very minor policy, if we don't ban wood-burning stoves, would be to offer grants to provide storage to allow logs to be seasoned for at least two years.
And if in 18 months, the storage sheds are not reasonably full of seasoning logs and the stoves operating far more cleanly, the premises (including the house and gardens) should be destroyed by controlled explosion.

 

[egbert]

So you doubt it is happening?
A certain laandowner has ended around 40 leases in the last year. Some have been left with steadings and some land, but the bulk of the land is going to forestry.
No one will speak up as they will be competing for grass lets etc from the same owner.
They are experts at silencing opposition.
On another area they have sold the land to a forstry company who will then hoof the farmers off.
The area will be devastated, all to fulfil ludicrous planting targets to fuel even more ludicrous woodchip boilers

'ended ...leases' ? Within the terms and conditions? If so, surely that is his legal right as the landowner?

I'm pretty sure it's just the fact that he's the landowner that upsets you most,
and there's not much doubt in my mind why the estate is downsizing......look to Edinburgh.
As it happens, I've found the man to be perfectly reasonable, aware he's in the spotlight, and conscientious to try and do the right thing.

As above, planting land looks pretty cheap from down here....why not get a mortgage, or form co-ops, and outbid the forestry concerns?

 

[egbert]

What type of Eucalypt is it if you dont mind asking ? Something like Snow Gum that will stick the frost ?

this occasion..
50/50 Dalrypia and Glaucens , and a handful of Nitens.
The emphasis is on , yes, frost tolerance, and then growth rate/timber quality.
the plan, such as it is, will be to thin heavily for biomass, with an eye to watching form and timber quality. If it looks like there mileage in growing it to mill, I'm happy to do so.
(and placed so as to be able to mill it and retail it to test the water)

 

[glasshouse]

'ended ...leases' ? Within the terms and conditions? If so, surely that is his legal right as the landowner?

I'm pretty sure it's just the fact that he's the landowner that upsets you most,
and there's not much doubt in my mind why the estate is downsizing......look to Edinburgh.
As it happens, I've found the man to be perfectly reasonable, aware he's in the spotlight, and conscientious to try and do the right thing.

As above, planting land looks pretty cheap from down here....why not get a mortgage, or form co-ops, and outbid the forestry concerns?

You are very concerned with legal rights.
Great power comes with great responsibility, but the modern estate is using the power but abdicating redponsibility for the social fabric and well being of its residents.
The highland and lowland clearances were perfectly legal, but totally immoral in aim and execution.
Similiarly my ex landlords acquisition of all my capital was completely legal, but similiarly immoral . That has ruled out me investing in anything
Just because something is legal , doesnt make it right.
Slavery would be the biggest example of that.
I hear a lot of money can be made trafficking women for prostitution, do you think i should earn a crust there?

 

[7610 super q]

You are very concerned with legal rights.
Great power comes with great responsibility, but the modern estate is using the power but abdicating redponsibility for the social fabric and well being of its residents.
The highland and lowland clearances were perfectly legal, but totally immoral in aim and execution.
Similiarly my ex landlords acquisition of all my capital was completely legal, but similiarly immoral . That has ruled out me investing in anything
Just because something is legal , doesnt make it right.
Slavery would be the biggest example of that.
I hear a lot of money can be made trafficking women for prostitution, do you think i should earn a crust there?

How did the landlord take your capitol ?

 

[glasshouse]

How did the landlord take your capitol ?

Quite Simple
Lies, half truths and deception. Some might call it fraud
And a sharp lawyer.

 

[egbert]

You are very concerned with legal rights.
Great power comes with great responsibility, but the modern estate is using the power but abdicating redponsibility for the social fabric and well being of its residents.
The highland and lowland clearances were perfectly legal, but totally immoral in aim and execution.
Similiarly my ex landlords acquisition of all my capital was completely legal, but similiarly immoral . That has ruled out me investing in anything
Just because something is legal , doesnt make it right.
Slavery would be the biggest example of that.
I hear a lot of money can be made trafficking women for prostitution, do you think i should earn a crust there?

So we're comparing your having been done over by a landlords lawyer to slavery and trafficking for prostitution?

I'm afraid Glasshouse that your fiscal loss was not the biggest damage.

 

[glasshouse]

So we're comparing your having been done over by a landlords lawyer to slavery and trafficking for prostitution?

I'm afraid Glasshouse that your fiscal loss was not the biggest damage.

You are a bit slow on the uptake obviously.
The end does not justify the means, where the end is profit and the means are evicting tenants , slavery drugdealing etc
You must be the farming equivalent of gordon " greed is good" gecko

 

[little_p]

I wonder how much of it is psychological? With farms being in family for generations, and Aunties and Uncles brought up there still alive, nobody wants to be the one that sold the family farm. I'm sure that does sell has a certain amount of guilt that they were one that took the tough decision (which other generations had put off).

 

[Highland Mule]

You are a bit slow on the uptake obviously.
The end does not justify the means, where the end is profit and the means are evicting tenants , slavery drugdealing etc
You must be the farming equivalent of gordon " greed is good" gecko

To be fair, you’re being incredibly cryptic about your own circumstances (probably correctly) and then expecting @egbert to side with your half story. As always, there are three truths - yours, theirs and THE.

 

[glasshouse]

To be fair, you’re being incredibly cryptic about your own circumstances (probably correctly) and then expecting @egbert to side with your half story. As always, there are three truths - yours, theirs and THE.

My own circumstances are irrelevant.
The point is that the profit motive drives all sorts of immoral decisions, with tenant evictions for subsidy only an example

 

[egbert]

To be fair, you’re being incredibly cryptic about your own circumstances (probably correctly) and then expecting @egbert to side with your half story. As always, there are three truths - yours, theirs and THE.

Don't worry on my account, I've been checking out what I've got to do to fulfil this agri version of 'gordon " greed is good" gecko'...well up for it!

 

[primmiemoo]

I wonder how much of it is psychological? With farms being in family for generations, and Aunties and Uncles brought up there still alive, nobody wants to be the one that sold the family farm. I'm sure that does sell has a certain amount of guilt that they were one that took the tough decision (which other generations had put off).

That can be true of other businesses, too. Generations of artisans or shop keepers - it's hard seeing the generation above or below give up.