So, if it’s bug*ered, why aren’t farms for sale?

[GeorgeK]

Problem is no one has a clue about what's going to happen. Gove has made many 'commitments' but I don't believe a word he says. There could be a bright future for sustainable, high quality produce and environment enhancement... or we could be put out of business with cheap, substandard imports and crippling regulations that aren't based on science or facts.
Hard to commit to anything at the moment with so much uncertainty

 

[Tarw Coch]

Problem is no one has a clue about what's going to happen. Gove has made many 'commitments' but I don't believe a word he says. There could be a bright future for sustainable, high quality produce and environment enhancement... or we could be put out of business with cheap, substandard imports and crippling regulations that aren't based on science or facts.
Hard to commit to anything at the moment with so much uncertainty

True, but if they cripple uk ag they will have to import more, wont do much good for the balance of trade deficit and unless the imports come from a more sustainable source it will be counterproductive for global climate.
Doesn’t mean they won’t try it though.

 

[glasshouse]

It's OK Glasshouse, if there's a post brexit price collapse in land values, it'll be worse in Scotland, with all the crap thrown at landlords by the snp.
You'll be able to buy whole glens....then you can be the laird.

Ha
The snp are funding landlords to hoof out tenants to plant trees
They are sitting on their hands while mass evictions are occurring
They are even going to throw out their famous starter farmers
Not holding my breath for that.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

True, but if they cripple uk ag they will have to import more, wont do much good for the balance of trade deficit and unless the imports come from a more sustainable source it will be counterproductive for global climate.
Doesn’t mean they won’t try it though.

The government will import more so the UK Carbon Footprint will look better to the public

 

[egbert]

Ha
The snp are funding landlords to hoof out tenants to plant trees
They are sitting on their hands while mass evictions are occurring
They are even going to throw out their famous starter farmers
Not holding my breath for that.

I'm an ignorant southerner.
Tell me how landlords with you are being paid to hoof out tenants
(and don't just talk about grants to plant...they're available to anyone with the land)

tell me where there are mass evictions beyond the terms and conditions of existing tenancies?
(I recall a big fuss about a Becleugh (spelling?) tenant who was being asked to leave at the end of his tenancy...hardly sounded reason to cry shame. Sorry for the tenant and all that, but read the document eh?)

I get the impression that snps bullying socialist treatment of large landowners is causing many to find ways to avoid re-letting land at all -either flog it, or put it under sitka.
Why wouldn't they, given how some people treat them.

 

[Tarw Coch]

The government will import more so the UK Carbon Footprint will look better to the public

Yes they may well try it, won’t be reducing the carbon foot print of food though, may well make it worse.
We’ll find out who really cares about such matters and who wants to say they care and make gestures.

 

[glasshouse]

I'm an ignorant southerner.
Tell me how landlords with you are being paid to hoof out tenants
(and don't just talk about grants to plant...they're available to anyone with the land)

tell me where there are mass evictions beyond the terms and conditions of existing tenancies?
(I recall a big fuss about a Becleugh (spelling?) tenant who was being asked to leave at the end of his tenancy...hardly sounded reason to cry shame. Sorry for the tenant and all that, but read the document eh?)

I get the impression that snps bullying socialist treatment of large landowners is causing many to find ways to avoid re-letting land at all -either flog it, or put it under sitka.
Why wouldn't they, given how some people treat them.

So you think its fine to evict whole communities and plant blanket trees ?
I dont blame the landlords for for firing the gun, i blame the govt for loading it aiming it and giving it to them

 

[unlacedgecko]

So you think its fine to evict whole communities and plant blanket trees ?
I dont blame the landlords for for firing the gun, i blame the govt for loading it aiming it and giving it to them

Which gives the landowner the best return?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Yes they may well try it, won’t be reducing the carbon foot print of food though, may well make it worse.
We’ll find out who really cares about such matters and who wants to say they care and make gestures.

Dont think the care .its how they look to the public that matters to them . There are plenty of experts that say the solar panels create more damage than savings

 

[glasshouse]

Which gives the landowner the best return?

So landowners are the only ones that matter?

 

[unlacedgecko]

So landowners are the only ones that matter?

They’re the ones that own the land. It’s their call what to do with it.

 

[glasshouse]

They’re the ones that own the land. It’s their call what to do with it.

Just as well you dont live here then

 

[unlacedgecko]

Just as well you dont live here then

I’ve lived and worked all over the UK, and beyond. If you don’t like it, you can always move.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

Just remember though, that one way or another they feed in to your accounts. You might not be claiming them directly but in effect your rent could be partly paid by them.

If Mr Landlord doesn't get his sub he might try to put the rent up. Whether he succeeds or not is a different matter.

If subs go, I predict a major sell off, not so much by families, but by companies and institutions who don't really benefit form the IHT aspects.

Is the BPS something like 3 billion? Whatever it is, that sum is being fed into the country as opposed to the urban. If that flow stops surely it will have a big effect on countryside finances?

 

[Y Fan Wen]

I would much rather earn a pound through my own efforts and choices, than be paid £10, spend £9 in the process on things I don’t want to do, and then have someone telling me that I’m being paid by them so they can tell me how to run things.

If subs went, I’d want to see all the quangos disappear as well.

Can I see that happening? Not really.

Hence i’m unsure whether subs really will go.

It’s one reason they are shifting them to environmental goods.

The same reason I think farming and environmental goods should not be linked at all.

On the news today they claim we’ve lost ponds across the country. I bet that is more a result of people’s garden ponds being filled in and houses being built on fields than it is to do with farmers actions themselves.

Yet who are the public automatically encouraged to attribute these things to first...?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45227432

 

[Steevo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45227432

Genius!

 

[glasshouse]

They’re the ones that own the land. It’s their call what to do with it.

Perhaps it is, but not when massive sums of taxpayers money are involved.

 

[egbert]

So you think its fine to evict whole communities and plant blanket trees ?
I dont blame the landlords for for firing the gun, i blame the govt for loading it aiming it and giving it to them

come on fella...tell me how and where this is happening?
Mass evictions? I'm surprised it's not nationally newsworthy.

I say again, I hear -and I do keep a weather eye on it- of complaints when a long term tenant doesn't want to leave come the end.
But thats not what you seem to be talking about.

and how is this being funded other than grant aid for planting which is available to anyone controlling the land.

As we discussed, you clearly have had bad experiences, but it might do you no end of good to recognise that it's not always as you have seen.


as for blankets of sitka?...... my views are complex- like the subject- for this one post.
I'm a multi-generational hill farmer (500 years plus on the same hills), and I have also planted bits of farmland all my adult life -just back now from putting 200 eucalyptus in, on steep lowland freehold of mine...i am at that cutting edge for once!

There's a place for it, although UK agri and forestry has a historic separation you don't find in most euro countries.
Trees are just another crop.
The highly productive blankets of sitka are an eco-desert, and not popular for that reason.
(and it's increasingly recognised within the industry that breaking up species and age classes is a much safer way to proceed, although that has to be balanced with labour availability/economic potential/ and the very few species that will tolerate the exposure that sitka does)

The tax break planting in the 70s and 80s have kick started a huge home based industry.
The employment and balance of payments suggests we have nationally done the right thing overall by going down this route.
The fact that - in several cases- different people have got the new work, and the trade is increasingly going through a tiny number of expanded corporate interests isn't good for PR, but is a reflection of reality.

The fact that so many feel aggrieved reflects several aspects of the above. And I can't right all of those 'wrongs' for you, sorry.

Looking in from the outside, land for planting in Scotland is looking cheap, and the business has loads of potential.
Why don't you buy some and plant your own? It would appear to be yielding £100/acre after all expenses once established.

 

[glasshouse]

come on fella...tell me how and where this is happening?
Mass evictions? I'm surprised it's not nationally newsworthy.

I say again, I hear -and I do keep a weather eye on it- of complaints when a long term tenant doesn't want to leave come the end.
But thats not what you seem to be talking about.

and how is this being funded other than grant aid for planting which is available to anyone controlling the land.

As we discussed, you clearly have had bad experiences, but it might do you no end of good to recognise that it's not always as you have seen.


as for blankets of sitka?...... my views are complex- like the subject- for this one post.
I'm a multi-generational hill farmer (500 years plus on the same hills), and I have also planted bits of farmland all my adult life -just back now from putting 200 eucalyptus in, on steep lowland freehold of mine...i am at that cutting edge for once!

There's a place for it, although UK agri and forestry has a historic separation you don't find in most euro countries.
Trees are just another crop.
The highly productive blankets of sitka are an eco-desert, and not popular for that reason.
(and it's increasingly recognised within the industry that breaking up species and age classes is a much safer way to proceed, although that has to be balanced with labour availability/economic potential/ and the very few species that will tolerate the exposure that sitka does)

The tax break planting in the 70s and 80s have kick started a huge home based industry.
The employment and balance of payments suggests we have nationally done the right thing overall by going down this route.
The fact that - in several cases- different people have got the new work, and the trade is increasingly going through a tiny number of expanded corporate interests isn't good for PR, but is a reflection of reality.

The fact that so many feel aggrieved reflects several aspects of the above. And I can't right all of those 'wrongs' for you, sorry.

Looking in from the outside, land for planting in Scotland is looking cheap, and the business has loads of potential.
Why don't you buy some and plant your own? It would appear to be yielding £100/acre after all expenses once established.

So you doubt it is happening?
A certain laandowner has ended around 40 leases in the last year. Some have been left with steadings and some land, but the bulk of the land is going to forestry.
No one will speak up as they will be competing for grass lets etc from the same owner.
They are experts at silencing opposition.
On another area they have sold the land to a forstry company who will then hoof the farmers off.
The area will be devastated, all to fulfil ludicrous planting targets to fuel even more ludicrous woodchip boilers

 

[ollie989898]

So you doubt it is happening?
A certain laandowner has ended around 40 leases in the last year. Some have been left with steadings and some land, but the bulk of the land is going to forestry.
No one will speak up as they will be competing for grass lets etc from the same owner.
They are experts at silencing opposition.
On another area they have sold the land to a forstry company who will then hoof the farmers off.
The area will be devastated, all to fulfil ludicrous planting targets to fuel even more ludicrous woodchip boilers

I can appreciate your point of view but there is no law that dictates what a land owner can or cannot do with his property?