Strip till versus no till

nick...

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
south norfolk
As above.thinking I’m going to have to take steps to save multiple passes.waiting to hear from weaving,Mzuri,sumo and the Spanish vikmar I think it is to look at machines at work.hoping to look at Claydon too.anyone local to me running any of the above who woukd not mind me coming to look and ask questions.any advantages of one system over the other.strip or no till
Nick...
 

sjt01

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
North Norfolk
As above.thinking I’m going to have to take steps to save multiple passes.waiting to hear from weaving,Mzuri,sumo and the Spanish vikmar I think it is to look at machines at work.hoping to look at Claydon too.anyone local to me running any of the above who woukd not mind me coming to look and ask questions.any advantages of one system over the other.strip or no till
Nick...
Weaving here, new to us this autumn
 

Deutzdx3

Member
As above.thinking I’m going to have to take steps to save multiple passes.waiting to hear from weaving,Mzuri,sumo and the Spanish vikmar I think it is to look at machines at work.hoping to look at Claydon too.anyone local to me running any of the above who woukd not mind me coming to look and ask questions.any advantages of one system over the other.strip or no till
Nick...

Do samagri do the virkar or is that different to the vikmar? Don’t rule out kockerling.
 

nick...

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
south norfolk
Sorry meant virkar.could not quite remember it.hoping to look at all these machines working and hope I have more luck than other things I’ve asked about
Nick...
 

Hobbit

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
South West
Hi nick. We run a sumo DTS and it’s a fantastic machine but this year has highlighted the fact that it bungs up at a drop of the hat ( later models are much better ). I’m convinced that a Claydon would have ran for longer on our clay and coped better in general. It’s much simpler than any other of the strip till machines and that’s reason we didn’t buy one. Perhaps this was the wrong way to look at it.
 

Shutesy

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Hi nick. We run a sumo DTS and it’s a fantastic machine but this year has highlighted the fact that it bungs up at a drop of the hat ( later models are much better ). I’m convinced that a Claydon would have ran for longer on our clay and coped better in general. It’s much simpler than any other of the strip till machines and that’s reason we didn’t buy one. Perhaps this was the wrong way to look at it.
Have you had any modifications done to yours? Ours is an earlier one, a few mods from Sumo helped a lot!
 

Hobbit

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
South West
Have you had any modifications done to yours? Ours is an earlier one, a few mods from Sumo helped a lot!
No mods. I understand that the extended stagger kit really helps. What is happening this year is clay is sticking to the covering disc and blocking them solid and/or the same is happening to the press wheels. Everything that happens in front of the covering disc and press wheels is fantastic which is what makes me question if a Claydon would be a more versatile drill as it’s just a tine and coulter. We have been DDing for 6 years and can definitely say that our soil is coping much better than it did in 2012.
 

Shutesy

Moderator
Arable Farmer
No mods. I understand that the extended stagger kit really helps. What is happening this year is clay is sticking to the covering disc and blocking them solid and/or the same is happening to the press wheels. Everything that happens in front of the covering disc and press wheels is fantastic which is what makes me question if a Claydon would be a more versatile drill as it’s just a tine and coulter. We have been DDing for 6 years and can definitely say that our soil is coping much better than it did in 2012.
We put the extended stagger kit on and use the newer front leg design creating more of a gap between the ripper leg and coulter leg. Has helped a lot. That said those mods dont sound like they would help with soil sticking to the covering discs and rear press wheels. Its probably the drills biggest downfall IMO as it relies on the press wheels which in dry or reasonable conditions do a great job, in wet conditions they are not ideal but it probably means we shouldn't be using it in those conditions. We have seen some great improvements in our soil as well over just 4 years. I have toyed with the idea of making a following harrow bar to go behind the press wheels when working in wetter conditions but its going to be a fair contraption to fit on the drill and work well.
 

Hobbit

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
South West
We put the extended stagger kit on and use the newer front leg design creating more of a gap between the ripper leg and coulter leg. Has helped a lot. That said those mods dont sound like they would help with soil sticking to the covering discs and rear press wheels. Its probably the drills biggest downfall IMO as it relies on the press wheels which in dry or reasonable conditions do a great job, in wet conditions they are not ideal but it probably means we shouldn't be using it in those conditions. We have seen some great improvements in our soil as well over just 4 years. I have toyed with the idea of making a following harrow bar to go behind the press wheels when working in wetter conditions but its going to be a fair contraption to fit on the drill and work well.
We have the new type legs with the forward sweep which are much better. Its a great drill and has made a real difference to our soil and business. This is just one of those years which highlights these problems.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
As above.thinking I’m going to have to take steps to save multiple passes.waiting to hear from weaving,Mzuri,sumo and the Spanish vikmar I think it is to look at machines at work.hoping to look at Claydon too.anyone local to me running any of the above who woukd not mind me coming to look and ask questions.any advantages of one system over the other.strip or no till
Nick...

A few thoughts...

You're welcome to come down here and see what I've done with a Claydon, but I'm sure you'll find other people closer to you with more similar conditions, cropping, soil type etc. The easiest way to do this is by contacting the manufacturers of each machine and seeing what customers they have in your area. You've also done the right thing by starting a post in TFF. Join BASE UK and go to some of their events and meet other like minded folk.

Rotation - if roots are a key part of your cropping then I think you've got to think carefully about no till. At the very least you'll need a low disturbance subsoiler. @Daniel grows beet and drill with his Claydon straight behind it. It's easier with an all combinable cropping rotation. Think about the system, not just the drill.

Sumo - Lots around. Improved by the extended stagger kit
Claydon - What I've got. Lots of my comments on this drill that has worked well for me.
Mzuri - came second in my choice of strip till drill & would have come first if my soil was heavier. Ask @E_B
Weaving - lots of other happy users in here.
Virkar - a drill new to the UK. @Vitu will help you here. I wanted a demo of one as I'm looking for the next step of no till. They leading disc wasn't good in chopped barley straw & they said so at the time. Virkar have now developed a modification to overcome this, so this puts them back in the game though too late for my next drill if I do buy one this year.
The 1st 3 drills above are the only real strip till machines on the market apart from the Horsch Focus TD. Vaderstad withdrew their Spirit Strip Till from the market as they'd rather sell you a Topdown, Carrier and Rapid/Spirit instead. They've done the same with the Seedhawk over here too.
 

Badshot

Member
Location
Kent
Don't rule out the simtech.
I started out with my kv tineseeder, still using it now, although I have a gd too.
Unfortunately it's too wet this late here to use it so back to the KV.
The simtech would do similar with the advantage of a packer roll on it too.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Strip till, in no particular order;
Claydon Hybrid
Mzuri Pro Till
Sumo DTS (can you swap the rear toolbar for a DD gang on a trailed machine in future??)
Horsch Focus TD

No till tine;
Dale
Seedhawk (rare older machines over here)
Aitchison T Sem
Modified Horsch CO/Sprinter
Virkar Dynamic with leading disc
Amazone Cayena, Primera, Condor

No till disc;
JD 750A
Horsch Avatar
Moore Unidrill/Sumo Versadrill/Sky Easydrill
Weaving GD
Ryetec MAAG SSP
Kuhn SD/Aurock
Primewest Cross Slot
Novag T Force Plus
MF130
Bettinson TC3 (showing my age here!)
 

nick...

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
south norfolk
Have just emailed dale and Simtech to hopefully have a look at machines.im sure in my opinion anyway that strip till is the way to go as a seed bed is made as opposed to a direct drill where seed can sit on a dry bench.hopefully I’ll get to hear from several companies I’ve emailed.i think a disc is important to slice through trash like a cover crop.i saw a Claydon demoed in a cover crop at cereals 2 years ago and with just one leg it was getting trash,mustard stalks, wrapped around it it which I’m sure would eventually block.im open to anyone’s opinions thanks
Nick...
 
Will you be buying into the whole DD methodology - permanent ground cover / chopped straw / cover crops? Or will you still use your discs etc to create a stale seedbed for delayed drilling? That will have an effect upon drill choice in my opinion. How heavy is your land? Do you expect an income from your straw? Any root crops on the farm?
 

Matt77

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East Sussex
Have just emailed dale and Simtech to hopefully have a look at machines.im sure in my opinion anyway that strip till is the way to go as a seed bed is made as opposed to a direct drill where seed can sit on a dry bench.hopefully I’ll get to hear from several companies I’ve emailed.i think a disc is important to slice through trash like a cover crop.i saw a Claydon demoed in a cover crop at cereals 2 years ago and with just one leg it was getting trash,mustard stalks, wrapped around it it which I’m sure would eventually block.im open to anyone’s opinions thanks
Nick...
Mzuri are very good at demos, and have been great to me, I think the pro till is a great drill, but I would say that as I have one :D It’s surprised me at how well it works in conditions like this year, just walked my last bit I did last week today, after 30mm of rain yesterday, seed is away and not sitting drowning because of the leading leg making a drainage channel.
 

nick...

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
south norfolk
Will you be buying into the whole DD methodology - permanent ground cover / chopped straw / cover crops? Or will you still use your discs etc to create a stale seedbed for delayed drilling? That will have an effect upon drill choice in my opinion. How heavy is your land? Do you expect an income from your straw? Any root crops on the farm?
I think it’s a massive learning curve but hope to get plenty of advice from you lot on here.i think chopped straw is cleared straw would depend on the year or season.i would be keen to do some cover cropping but again a big learning curve.maybe do a couple of fields and experiment.maybe 35% of land is pretty heavy and the rest is medium.have sold straw in the past for good money but the traffic could be troublesome in a wet year with extra wheelmarks.no root crops now.saw the light and gave up beet about 4 years ago.
Nick...
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think it’s a massive learning curve but hope to get plenty of advice from you lot on here.i think chopped straw is cleared straw would depend on the year or season.i would be keen to do some cover cropping but again a big learning curve.maybe do a couple of fields and experiment.maybe 35% of land is pretty heavy and the rest is medium.have sold straw in the past for good money but the traffic could be troublesome in a wet year with extra wheelmarks.no root crops now.saw the light and gave up beet about 4 years ago.
Nick...

if you want to come and have a look around / chat you are always welcome

key is not to focus on the machinery and think carefully about rotation / nutrition and organic matter
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Have just emailed dale and Simtech to hopefully have a look at machines.im sure in my opinion anyway that strip till is the way to go as a seed bed is made as opposed to a direct drill where seed can sit on a dry bench.hopefully I’ll get to hear from several companies I’ve emailed.i think a disc is important to slice through trash like a cover crop.i saw a Claydon demoed in a cover crop at cereals 2 years ago and with just one leg it was getting trash,mustard stalks, wrapped around it it which I’m sure would eventually block.im open to anyone’s opinions thanks
Nick...

Yes, Claydons do block up in tall stubble/crops. That's the downside of a tine and low underbeam clearance. That's what Jeff Claydon invented the rake and Terrastar for. I use a set of Carrier discs or a topper if necessary.

Don't get too hung up on moisture. Without lots of cultivations you won't be drying the ground out. That's a double edged sword when the weather is wet. Aim to start drilling a week earlier in the autumn and 2 weeks later in the spring. A strip till drill won't solve a slug or weed problem, changing your system will do that for you.
 
if you want to come and have a look around / chat you are always welcome

key is not to focus on the machinery and think carefully about rotation / nutrition and organic matter
@Brisel @Clive ,so how do we do it ,intensive root cropped land harvested in less than ideal conditions at times , but are doing some covers gets some muck ,some structureless sand some grade one silt and black and every thing inbetween , doing less cultivation and is slowly working but the spuds undo it all , drilled 100 acre is other day with combi ,after beans and rape its in good order ,like a giant sponge as you keep going on about structure superb ,we want to go to the next step with different drill but want to stay on narrow spacing .?
Have to put a leg through the flinty sand or it goes solid like a road
 

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