Subsidies inflate our production costs........THE BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD!!

[onthehoof]

Would be a bugger of an idea to implement but I can see the merits of having an organisation representing each sector, more importantly a bit more clout for your lobbying body- as with most lobby groups they seem to make more of a squeak after the fact (usually after they've lost).
I just have an uneasy feeling about how a trade deal with the EU (for example) would go down if it's left up to a lot of fragmented groups all trying to get a couple of politicians to do the work, maybe a discussion worthy of its own thread.
Either way it's not going to have much tangible effect on the running of my own farming enterprise- the weaker UK ag becomes, the better for us "cheap competitors", but I do feel attached to it all, in a weird way, having decended from the Scots.

So how does it work over there. It's seems your government is pretty farmer friendly as ag contributes most to GDP. I guess you don't need an NFU as everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.

 

[DrWazzock]

2 bits about that.

1. I don't want what you suggest. Who is going to pay the cretins who run it (badly)?
2. I like my little empire. It's mine and so far I'm only up against the ghosts of my fore-fathers in terms of what I can and cannot do.

I can't see how putting a layer of management in at any level is a good idea. They will all be useless wankkers, waste all the money and then...I dunno. Die or whatever they do. That's just the way it is.

I don't like layers of management any more than you do and personally, I prefer to sell direct so don't really need them at all.

But for UK agricultural mass produced commodities like beef and lamb for example I think the big producers need better representation, branding, marketing etc worldwide, particularly as we approach Brexit.

If I'm Chinese and I want to buy a huge order of British beef, who do I ring? And what's the brand I look for? Who puts quality assured producers in touch with global customers? I am sure the info and people are out there somewhere but they seem to take some finding. And there seem to be two brands. "English quality beef" and "Red Tractor" shown on the AHDB website. It's a mess.

Try it for yourselves. Google British beef and see what comes up. Generally a recipe for a Sunday roast.

AHDB doesn't roll off the tongue nor is it a memorable brand or appear as a go to one stop shop. Damn it I can't even remember what it stands for and I'm British,

And who is going to lobby for us on tariffs? National Sheep Association, NFU, CLA, TFA, AHDB, RT, Boris Johnson.....?

 

[DrWazzock]

And frankly if they are going to let stuff in post Brexit that doesn't meet our standards such as RT, then what will be the point of RT at all.

RT either has to apply to all bulk commodity products or it shouldn't apply at all. Can't have it both ways!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So how does it work over there. It's seems your government is pretty farmer friendly as ag contributes most to GDP. I guess you don't need an NFU as everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.

We have Federated Farmers, our main lobbying body for general farming related lobbying =NFU
Fonterra handle practically everything dairy, (some smaller alternative companies eg Open Country and Gardians just up the road from me; they know to toe the line)
We have NAIT /Ospri which handle all the recording and movements of cattle and deer, (TB related administration), but the testing is done by Asure NZ-formerly MAF- Ministry of Ag + Fisheries. Asure also do the dairy inspections etc, whereas the meat companies enforce the auditing of producers for their buyers eg Tesco M&S, and our growing Asian and US markets
The processing companies handle their own exporting and marketing.
Then we have dairyNZ who provide a fair bit of resource for the dairy men, and Beef&Lamb who do the same for us others.

Govermment is relatively good, so long as National get in, our industry gets a reasonably fair go. Labour are more wrapped up in "welfare for the chronically useless type" stuff, spending, buying votes..
Guess which way I cast my vote
a party best suited to being in opposition from a farming perspective.
It seems a reasonably well oiled machine, but it still has a few rumbly bearings and things held together with string
One thing we all seem to share is a lack of unity amongst farmers themselves, always looking out for number 1.. which makes the eventual reaming inevitable.
Structure wise, I think its reasonable.
For me, I only really deal with PGG for livestock, who finance them and arrange the processing and cartage for what I want to send- a glorified grazier!
It's straightforward and far easier than trying to calculate interest on so many unknown factors in the fattening business, and I'm not on tour around all the sales and markets when I don't want to be.
It's really quite easy from over here to see the disadvantages you guys face.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I don't like layers of management any more than you do and personally, I prefer to sell direct so don't really need them at all.

But for UK agricultural mass produced commodities like beef and lamb for example I think the big producers need better representation, branding, marketing etc worldwide, particularly as we approach Brexit.

If I'm Chinese and I want to buy a huge order of British beef, who do I ring? And what's the brand I look for? Who puts quality assured producers in touch with global customers? I am sure the info and people are out there somewhere but they seem to take some finding. And there seem to be two brands. "English quality beef" and "Red Tractor" shown on the AHDB website. It's a mess.

Try it for yourselves. Google British beef and see what comes up. Generally a recipe for a Sunday roast.

AHDB doesn't roll off the tongue nor is it a memorable brand or appear as a go to one stop shop. Damn it I can't even remember what it stands for and I'm British,

And who is going to lobby for us on tariffs? National Sheep Association, NFU, CLA, TFA, AHDB, RT, Boris Johnson.....?

As a contrast, Silver Fern farms (PPCS) have spent so much time on rebranding, branding, and marketing strategy. They have a 'pasture to plate' marketing gag that is snapped up around the world, the consumers want beef and sheepmeat thats born, raised, and finished on grass.. and they know who to call.
And quality assurance is also simple, if it's not good enough to be on a shelf in one of your supermarkets, it ends up in one of ours! Far more streamlined when it's marketed and exported by the processors themselves.

In saying that, our returns are comparable to yours, just better margins due to our agriculture leaving most of its fluff rubbed off on the doorway of the 1990s. A massive upheaval and struggle, but you don't get to 'great' without a bit of that.

 

[Hilly]

Shorter winters,warmer climate,proximity to markets etc,the list is endless, it is quite noticeable on here where the anti sub brigade are based and it is not in the north of Scotland.

Quite often the south can get worse weather than us, we have less people about to worry about less traffic about, some great markets in scotland, you should walk a mile in another mans shoes and you will find the grass isnt always greener, i grew up over the border with my family farming outskirts of a city, id never ever ever go back to that id rather a Scottish island everyday of the week.

 

[DrWazzock]

As a contrast, Silver Fern farms (PPCS) have spent so much time on rebranding, branding, and marketing strategy. They have a 'pasture to plate' marketing gag that is snapped up around the world, the consumers want beef and sheepmeat thats born, raised, and finished on grass.. and they know who to call.
And quality assurance is also simple, if it's not good enough to be on a shelf in one of your supermarkets, it ends up in one of ours! Far more streamlined when it's marketed and exported by the processors themselves.

In saying that, our returns are comparable to yours, just better margins due to our agriculture leaving most of its fluff rubbed off on the doorway of the 1990s. A massive upheaval and struggle, but you don't get to 'great' without a bit of that.

To be fair, Marks and Spencer's have done their bit in our experience to market British lamb making a real effort to liaise with suppliers. Good for them, but what we need is a nationwide approach.

I think British lamb is marketed under the St George brand in France.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Got some baleage for sale here...
TFF special, you pick up and I'll pay the GST

Done 75 bales this week, the McHale suffered some "oversteer" ,which ended up causing the Leaping Goat to have a "major loss of traction" No point in cleaning the tractor till the last bale is shifted

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Done 75 bales this week, the McHale suffered some "oversteer" ,which ended up causing the Leaping Goat to have a "major loss of traction" No point in cleaning the tractor till the last bale is shifted

Funny old season it's been.
The Leaping Goat
Hopefully not too much "skidding"

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Funny old season it's been.
The Leaping Goat
Hopefully not too much "skidding"

They had to bring out their biggest Leaping Goat the following day , only just pulled it out too, would have thought McHale would have better tyres on their Fusion 3 baler, as they slide quite easily.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

They had to bring out their biggest Leaping Goat the following day , only just pulled it out too, would have thought McHale would have better tyres on their Fusion 3 baler, as they slide quite easily.

I have transferred many a bale and carried on with a fusion on one wheel, must be slipping

 

[Kiwi Pete]

To be fair, Marks and Spencer's have done their bit in our experience to market British lamb making a real effort to liaise with suppliers. Good for them, but what we need is a nationwide approach.

I think British lamb is marketed under the St George brand in France.

Is there any association between the processing companies or do they all play their own tunes?

 

[Henarar]

And frankly if they are going to let stuff in post Brexit that doesn't meet our standards such as RT, then what will be the point of RT at all.

RT either has to apply to all bulk commodity products or it shouldn't apply at all. Can't have it both ways!

in theory RT should help if they let in lower standard stuff because it should have been promoted so its the label shoppers look for, but it hasn't so it won't be much help, all they mind is more silly pen pushing
apparently it works better for exports than it does here

 

[Kiwi Pete]

in theory RT should help if they let in lower standard stuff because it should have been promoted so its the label shoppers look for, but it hasn't so it won't be much help, all they mind is more silly pen pushing
apparently it works better for exports than it does here

What sort of paperwork and record keeping are involved with the RT accreditation? Is it stuff you would be doing anyway or just rubbish.

 

[Top Tip.]

Quite often the south can get worse weather than us, we have less people about to worry about less traffic about, some great markets in scotland, you should walk a mile in another mans shoes and you will find the grass isnt always greener, i grew up over the border with my family farming outskirts of a city, id never ever ever go back to that id rather a Scottish island everyday of the week.

Everyone to their own. I was talking about the economics of the job you I think are talking more about the social aspect.

 

[Henarar]

What sort of paperwork and record keeping are involved with the RT accreditation? Is it stuff you would be doing anyway or just rubbish.

most of it is duplicate and plenty just make it up the day before a inspection, they seem to worry about the paper work and not really look at the way the animals are kept

 

[Hilly]

Everyone to their own. I was talking about the economics of the job you I think are talking more about the social aspect.

Well in that case we get calf sub and beef eff scheme and years of historic payment, makes us better off instantly, your argument has not a leg to stand on.

 

[Top Tip.]

Well in that case we get calf sub and beef eff scheme and years of historic payment, makes us better off instantly, your argument has not a leg to stand on.

The reason that we get the calf sub and have the beef eff scheme is because we are disadvantaged.I am really struggling to follow the logic of your argument as I said before the points I made as to the advantages of climate, shortness of winter,proximity to markets etc are just common sense.

 

[digger64]

The reason that we get the calf sub and have the beef eff scheme is because we are disadvantaged.I am really struggling to follow the logic of your argument as I said before the points I made as to the advantages of climate, shortness of winter,proximity to markets etc are just common sense.

The reason you get that is because your gov values you more and is more on your side

 

[Top Tip.]

The reason you get that is because your gov values you more and is more on your side

Yes,agreed but it is also to compensate us for the disadvantage we are faced with.