Sustainable Vegan Farming System ??

[Pilatus]

Simple question "How would vegans farm sustainably"?????
Where can I find the Vegan "Sustainable Farming Cropping Rotation"?
Oops I for got Vegans do not want to create CO2 emissions so their diet must be produced in the UK.

 

[Raider112]

Simple question "How would vegans farm sustainably"?????
Where can I find the Vegan "Sustainable Farming Cropping Rotation"?
Oops I for got Vegans do not want to create CO2 emissions so their diet must be produced in the UK.

Do you think they are bothered about any of this? The only agenda they have is to destroy livestock farming. Luckily for us they have as much chance of doing that as they have of farming sustainably.

 

[Pilatus]

Do you think they are bothered about any of this? The only agenda they have is to destroy livestock farming. Luckily for us they have as much chance of doing that as they have of farming sustainably.

In my opinion vegans are idealistic unsustainable hypocrites.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Iain Tohurst did a small scale version.

Dont think it would be too difficult as it wouldnt need to be organic

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It's actually not too difficult to achieve this
in a sustainable way - it's called gardening

It's all the transport and dumb "farmer beliefs" such as fertilisers being necessary that makes agriculture unsustainable, and it doesn't really matter what is that is produced - if you don't over-produce stuff, and haul it around the district, then it's ultimately a sustainable practice

When you get into importing fertilisers and machines and chems, then it becomes ultimately a futile pursuit, because all of those items are only for our current time of abundant resource and clear subsidisation - what's "sustainable" about burning 10 units of energy to produce a unit of food energy?

This question usually makes me really unpopular with farmers and vegan consumers alike - we are all on this Earth together, the true cost of what we do is hidden behind the farce of the "cheap food, cheap fuel" movement

 

[Pilatus]

Iain Tohurst did a small scale version.

Dont think it would be too difficult as it wouldnt need to be organic

So can all the crops needed to provide a vegan diet be grown in the uk ,serious question and not being sarcastic?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So can all the crops needed to provide a vegan diet be grown in the uk ,serious question and not being sarcastic?

That would depend if the consumers can grow their own, or not?

 

[Pilatus]

It's actually not too difficult to achieve this
in a sustainable way - it's called gardening

It's all the transport and dumb "farmer beliefs" such as fertilisers being necessary that makes agriculture unsustainable, and it doesn't really matter what is that is produced - if you don't over-produce stuff, and haul it around the district, then it's ultimately a sustainable practice

When you get into importing fertilisers and machines and chems, then it becomes ultimately a futile pursuit, because all of those items are only for our current time of abundant resource and clear subsidisation - what's "sustainable" about burning 10 units of energy to produce a unit of food energy?

This question usually makes me really unpopular with farmers and vegan consumers alike - we are all on this Earth together, the true cost of what we do is hidden behind the farce of the "cheap food, cheap fuel" movement

Perhaps even more so with Veganism as I thought they want to cut down Co2 emissions.

 

[jack6480]

It's actually not too difficult to achieve this
in a sustainable way - it's called gardening

It's all the transport and dumb "farmer beliefs" such as fertilisers being necessary that makes agriculture unsustainable, and it doesn't really matter what is that is produced - if you don't over-produce stuff, and haul it around the district, then it's ultimately a sustainable practice

When you get into importing fertilisers and machines and chems, then it becomes ultimately a futile pursuit, because all of those items are only for our current time of abundant resource and clear subsidisation - what's "sustainable" about burning 10 units of energy to produce a unit of food energy?

This question usually makes me really unpopular with farmers and vegan consumers alike - we are all on this Earth together, the true cost of what we do is hidden behind the farce of the "cheap food, cheap fuel" movement

So true, this mentality of thinking we need to produce more to feed everyone has driven it

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Perhaps even more so with Veganism as I thought they want to cut down Co2 emissions.

Anyone can do this.
Everyone should do this!

Sometimes, though, it's all about the convenience... which obviously includes blaming everyone else as some type of excuse for pee-poor performance ..

In short the world is increasingly getting detached from what put life on the planet in the first place, some of the crap I read on here I can only laugh at.. from people who really should know better!

So the consumer really has very little chance if the industrial, state-subsidised growers of plants do not have a clue about sustainable production - unless they simply shun the shops and supermarkets and take food production into their own hands.
And that includes all, not just vegetarians and vegans.

We simply can't keep doing stupid, wasteful things, not for long.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So true, this mentality of thinking we need to produce more to feed everyone has driven it

All we need to do is better, not more!

There is so much food in the world, logistics and corruption are the issue, not a lack of supply.
The poorest nations only need water, some seeds, and a clearing to grow enough food for a community - which is a stark reminder of the decadence of modern society!

 

[Blaithin]

It's actually not too difficult to achieve this
in a sustainable way - it's called gardening

It's all the transport and dumb "farmer beliefs" such as fertilisers being necessary that makes agriculture unsustainable, and it doesn't really matter what is that is produced - if you don't over-produce stuff, and haul it around the district, then it's ultimately a sustainable practice

When you get into importing fertilisers and machines and chems, then it becomes ultimately a futile pursuit, because all of those items are only for our current time of abundant resource and clear subsidisation - what's "sustainable" about burning 10 units of energy to produce a unit of food energy?

This question usually makes me really unpopular with farmers and vegan consumers alike - we are all on this Earth together, the true cost of what we do is hidden behind the farce of the "cheap food, cheap fuel" movement

Not sure it’s that simple...

Many vegans don’t promote the use of manure for fertilizer. It’s a form of exploiting the animals. They’d probably prefer the use of synthetic fertilizers.

While you can get good fertilizer with composting plant biomass... there’s just something about poop. It would be hard to put enough back in to a garden by just recycling its own OM. Poop or synthetics would be a good boost and if you can’t use poop, well...

 

[CornishTone]

Apparently a Vegan diet lowers fertility, so ultimately Vegans themselves are unsustainable. Let them crack on I say, natural selection at work.

Watch and marvel at the turmoil of nature’s magnificence!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Not sure it’s that simple...

Many vegans don’t promote the use of manure for fertilizer. It’s a form of exploiting the animals. They’d probably prefer the use of synthetic fertilizers.

While you can get good fertilizer with composting plant biomass... there’s just something about poop. It would be hard to put enough back in to a garden by just recycling its own OM. Poop or synthetics would be a good boost and if you can’t use poop, well...

Maybe, it really depends how flawed their thinking is.
Obviously our livestock are simply amazing, perfect creations for recycling plant biomass back into the soil, raising cation exchange capacity and so forth - but adding nutrients doesn't achieve that, at all.
For example, we have added nothing here other than more animals and more litter, our SOM has risen from 8.9% to 11.1%, the pH has gone from 5.8 to 6.1, and the CEC has gone from 13.34 to 16.7 - this is in two years, simply from a change in management practices.
As a direct result, all the conventionally testable "base saturations" have skyrocketed, which is bad news for the fertiliser salespeople, because it demonstrates how flawed the thinking is - but it also shows me quite clearly that the soil is capable of regenerating itself, without putting stuff in - in fact, I have about 300 tons of silage and 300 tons of compost taken out, at the present point in time.
It's therefore, (to my mind, based on what has occurred here in a short time) completely false to assume that fertilisers help, or that animals are absolutely fundamental to soil regeneration, they simply help people be further removed from the fact that we are animals too.

We can still be biodigesters too, return our wastes to the Earth, just as ruminants do - it just requires changes to occur to how we think and what we do.

For the record, I still eat a lot of meat, I still crap in a toilet and flush it away, and I still drive a vehicle.... but every 'conventional thought train' is at once too simple and yet too complex simultaneously.
Mankind has really been led up the garden path by listening to science and not critically evaluating what they tell us.

Usually it's down to money...

 

[CornishTone]

Maybe, it really depends how flawed their thinking is.
Obviously our livestock are simply amazing, perfect creations for recycling plant biomass back into the soil, raising cation exchange capacity and so forth - but adding nutrients doesn't achieve that, at all.
For example, we have added nothing here other than more animals and more litter, our SOM has risen from 8.9% to 11.1%, the pH has gone from 5.8 to 6.1, and the CEC has gone from 13.34 to 16.7 - this is in two years, simply from a change in management practices.
As a direct result, all the conventionally testable "base saturations" have skyrocketed, which is bad news for the fertiliser salespeople, because it demonstrates how flawed the thinking is - but it also shows me quite clearly that the soil is capable of regenerating itself, without putting stuff in - in fact, I have about 300 tons of silage and 300 tons of compost taken out, at the present point in time.
It's therefore, (to my mind, based on what has occurred here in a short time) completely false to assume that fertilisers help, or that animals are absolutely fundamental to soil regeneration, they simply help people be further removed from the fact that we are animals too.

We can still be biodigesters too, return our wastes to the Earth, just as ruminants do - it just requires changes to occur to how we think and what we do.

For the record, I still eat a lot of meat, I still crap in a toilet and flush it away, and I still drive a vehicle.... but every 'conventional thought train' is at once too simple and yet too complex simultaneously.
Mankind has really been led up the garden path by listening to science and not critically evaluating what they tell us.

Usually it's down to money...

“It's therefore, (to my mind, based on what has occurred here in a short time) completely false to assume that fertilisers help, or that animals are absolutely fundamental to soil regeneration,”

So, you are confident that you could’ve achieved all that without animals?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

“It's therefore, (to my mind, based on what has occurred here in a short time) completely false to assume that fertilisers help, or that animals are absolutely fundamental to soil regeneration,”

So, you are confident that you could’ve achieved all that without animals?

I probably wouldn't still have a business.

Aside from that, it's unlikely that would have improved in two years, because it's obviously driven by the carbon sequested:carbon burnt, plus many "human crops" require inputs that "animal crops" do not, because this is old grassland it's only coming right after being "improved"

However, if each 5 acre field was home to a family of vegans with a composting toilet and no transport - why not?

 

[CornishTone]

I probably wouldn't still have a business.

Aside from that, it's unlikely that would have improved in two years, because it's obviously driven by the carbon sequested:carbon burnt, plus many "human crops" require inputs that "animal crops" do not, because this is old grassland it's only coming right after being "improved"

However, if each 5 acre field was home to a family of vegans with a composting toilet and no transport - why not?

So, real world scenario, animals are fundamental to soil regeneration?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Further to that, it really all comes down to flows; flows in, flows out, and that's the balance, the stocktake is the soil test (and even that's flawed)

For vegans to be as good as animals, they'd need to live like animals.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So, real world scenario, animals are fundamental to soil regeneration?

100% it's all down to how the biomass is cycled.

Humans are very flawed: we tend to want to "have our cake and eat it", and so our ecosystem is greatly removed from what will work in the future.

We can attempt to kickstart our soils all we like with humates and microbial potions etc, but the food chain does all this; no need to reinvent the wheel, just concentrate on the basics of nature

 

[CornishTone]

For vegans to be as good as animals, they'd need to live like animals.

Now that would make good tv!