The last nail in the coffin.

[shumungus]

A shambles from start to finish.
Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI): Plan to shut scheme and compensate boiler owners - BBC News

 

[HolzKopf]

I think the trouble is the speed of change in what we perceive the future holds for electricity generation, heating, vehicles. What is promised one day is undeliverable the next - all sandwiched between the 5 year term of a UK Parliament needing votes to be re-elected.

Throwing cash at renewables is not always the answer. Gas boilers gone by 2025 and oil by 2028 - really?

Then there's no more petrol and diesel by 2030

We need cross party input on future energy use in the UK - saying we're going to do the impossible is ok for now but not for a future parliament that tries (or not) to implement it.

HK

 

[Exfarmer]

I think the trouble is the speed of change in what we perceive the future holds for electricity generation, heating, vehicles. What is promised one day is undeliverable the next - all sandwiched between the 5 year term of a UK Parliament needing votes to be re-elected.

Throwing cash at renewables is not always the answer. Gas boilers gone by 2025 and oil by 2028 - really?

Then there's no more petrol and diesel by 2030

We need cross party input on future energy use in the UK - saying we're going to do the impossible is ok for now but not for a future parliament that tries (or not) to implement it.

HK

so correct, it is absolutely crazy what they are proposing, we need huge investment in infrastructure which only the government can approve. Then they will have years of battles with Nimbys trying to prevent all the new power lines ands probably Nuclear power stations which will be required to give a stable supply of Electricity. The network has been very close to breaking point this winter, yet alone with 14v million electric vehicles on the roads and the country relying on ASHP for their heating.

 

[ollie989898]

It was a poorly-conceived piece of policy and I knew this would end in the usual explosion and egg on face. Knee-jerk and short term thinking from government just won't work on an issue this complex which requires careful policy formulation and a plan to implement it that spans decades.

 

[e3120]

Without doubt the design was flawed. That's being very generous as the GB scheme cost controls were there to be copied.

The salient lesson for all is that no funding promise is unbreakable, be that RHI, FIT, BPS or ELMS. More of a risk than ever before.

 

[Chasingmytail]

This is N Ireland only will this effect mainland UK?

 

[shumungus]

This is N Ireland only will this effect mainland UK?

Nope but it changed the playing field so as the government has the right now to renege on any deal they do.

 

[daveydiesel1]

Nope but it changed the playing field so as the government has the right now to renege on any deal they do.

Itl certainly make 1 more wary of future investments backed by government incentives

 

[wdah/him]

rhi was wrong from the start, everyone with any sense knew it but some just seen it as cash for ash. know a few that still use it and say it is as cheap as oil but for a business it is a selling point as using green heating.

Rarely if a thing looks too good is it long lasting

 

[Doing it for the kids]

From what I understand NI cocked up due to no Tier 2.

it cost a lot to set up but working well here in UK, tenants love the green energy, especially when linked to solar.

i would be surprised if the gov will do this in the uk, the compensation claims could be higher than the remainder of the tariff!

 

[Exfarmer]

The problem with any government grant scheme is that very quickly the scammers con artists and good old fashioned double glazing salesmen get involved.
Very quickly there will bee people setting up companies and looking for loopholes and deliberate misunderstandings of the purpose of the law, quite often knowing full well by the time the chickens come home to roost their company will be wound up and they will be long gone with their ill gotten gains., often having paid them selves a huge sum of money and leaving creditors everywhere.
The other problem of course is that any grant subsidy etc generally pushes up thew cost of the scheme by a similar amount and thus achieves very little.

 

[Fogg]

The scheme was just too generous. When applicants could get an incentive payment of £400 for every £130 of pellet they set fire to it's no surprise a few chancers jumped on the bandwagon to rinse it for all it was worth.

A more sensible regime might have disincentivised fossil fuels and given enough subidy to make the investment in renewable plant the smart thing to do. If there was some mechanism in place to ensure that renewably produced energy was, say 2p/kwH cheaper than LPG for 20yrs, then that should have been enough of an incentive to get the plant, but not enough of one to encourage crooks to heat empty buildings.

 

[turbofarming]

5 years with no t2 limits. I bet there aren't many at all that aren't fully paid off probably more like 200% already.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

The scheme was just too generous. When applicants could get an incentive payment of £400 for every £130 of pellet they set fire to it's no surprise a few chancers jumped on the bandwagon to rinse it for all it was worth.

A more sensible regime might have disincentivised fossil fuels and given enough subidy to make the investment in renewable plant the smart thing to do. If there was some mechanism in place to ensure that renewably produced energy was, say 2p/kwH cheaper than LPG for 20yrs, then that should have been enough of an incentive to get the plant, but not enough of one to encourage crooks to heat empty buildings.

surely this is all about a lack of T2? The Uk scheme seems to be working ok

 

[Fogg]

I think the main difference between NI and mainland Britain is not Tier 2, but the number of Moy Park growers per 100,000 population ratio.

 

[Fogg]

- but on Tier 1 alone a 200kW boiler over here will have potentially reaped ~£170k in RHI snce 2014. That's some return. 13 years of that to look forward to too. Index linked.

That is more generous than it needed to be. It's the same story with domestic PV generators getting 50p+/kW in FiT. There's way more reward than risk in that arrangement.

 

[Exfarmer]

- but on Tier 1 alone a 200kW boiler over here will have potentially reaped ~£170k in RHI snce 2014. That's some return. 13 years of that to look forward to too. Index linked.

That is more generous than it needed to be. It's the same story with domestic PV generators getting 50p+/kW in FiT. There's way more reward than risk in that arrangement.

it is certainly true that some domestic generators are getting over 50p but they paid a phenomenal price for the panels at the time

 

[Doing it for the kids]

- but on Tier 1 alone a 200kW boiler over here will have potentially reaped ~£170k in RHI snce 2014. That's some return. 13 years of that to look forward to too. Index linked.

That is more generous than it needed to be. It's the same story with domestic PV generators getting 50p+/kW in FiT. There's way more reward than risk in that arrangement.

@200 kw that's 283,333 kwh per annum. even at 7 yrs that's paying an average of 11.66p / kwh per year which as far as I am aware is not the case, even now payment is sub 10p / kwh.

the cost of materials and labour back then was also much higher, so the higher rate was needed to kick start the industry.

it is certainly true that some domestic generators are getting over 50p but they paid a phenomenal price for the panels at the time

exactly! these grants are there to stimulate growth in the sector. People get angry when it gets pulled, it was never going to last forever! NI cocked up with their lack of T2 meaning open ended cheques for all

 

[BrianV]

Woman on the TV last night saying how good it was that the very last loads of coal were being loaded at the docks & then went on to say how great it was that Drax now burns imported dried wood chips from the US at the rate of 800,000 trees per day, conveniently she chose not to mention the last bit!

 

[Fogg]

it is certainly true that some domestic generators are getting over 50p but they paid a phenomenal price for the panels at the time

I paid £8k to get mine installed, and saw ~£3k of tax free benefit last year alone. It was rather sunny, mind.