time for ukraine to surrender?

[Henarar]

Second shift is on in St Petersburg I see. Will you be allowed into the special shops for the elite that are being set up?

If you look up you will see it don't matter, it looks like its going to be a nice day to sit outside in St Petersburg

 

[JP1]

What an utterly stupid post. Guarantee a nuclear war...?! And that on the patently false assumption that Russia will - or even can - have a 'victory' in Ukraine. Your posts are disgusting.

I claim a reasonable experience of the military and a basic - but competent - understanding of both tactics and strategy, and I can call on far greater experience than mine from many, many wars in many places and times. There is simply no way Russia can successfully 'take' and still less 'hold' Ukraine with the resources they have, while Ukrainians wish to resist, which they do, and will.

In my time, before it, and still now, it is a demonstrated fact that an invading force with a hostile native population needs to have - at an absolute minimum - five times the number of combatants they will face. Russia has ~180k troops in theatre, a third of its whole army; Ukrainian regular troops are a few thousands less than that. So, immediately Russia is offering Ukraine near parity in numbers of trained troops, and depriving itself of 80% of the near MILLION men it needed to succeed. And that is just, at minimum, what would be needed to take Ukraine. And that is not accounting for Ukrainian reservists and other volunteers.

To actually hold the Ukraine in anything approaching a stable manner would require double the number to take it, and then some; for Ukraine - and this is only accounting for numbers not area - that means needing TWO MILLIONS of occupying troops, an absurd number that Russia cannot hope to mobilise, and could not afford to maintain.

Russia has an economy the size of Italy's, it has - so it tells us - a fully equipped large nuclear fleet. Even if only a quarter of its fleet exists, it simply wouldn't have the money to support and supply the rest of its armed forces in anything approaching the manner it claims to. Plus only an idiot will deny the extremely corrupt Russian 'system', in which a huge amount of money allocated to its forces goes missing. Every day is now costing it >$500mns, it has lost more than half of its foreign reserve 'fund' and its economy is shrinking by the hour, and that from a poor start.

None of this is to say that the Ukrainians will not have a hard job, or that Russia could and may yet bring in more men and materiel. But it's late, Russia has wasted a lot of time, it has lost momentum, it has exhausted its morale, it has far less of everything than it did; Ukraine has resisted well, destroyed a huge amount of what Russia has presented, now has far more weapons and men than it did even just a week ago, and its morale is as high as ever.

Your defeatism is emphatically not 'realism', you pointedly ignore both Russia's economic and its military weaknesses. Your defeatism has not a shred of morality to hide behind, you claim the 'greater good' while you advocate feeding the aggressor, encouraging the bully, setting the worst precedent, and all that when there has never been an example of such stupidity ever succeeding in its aim, only of always being wrong.

Well written and measured and rational

Sadly it may well involve the death of many innocent Ukrainians and even their elected leader but I really hope they do prevail

 

[JP1]

Really, because this all started with Ukraine wanting to be part of the EU & NATO I wonder if they are still so keen now?

So what bit of democracy don't you understand ?

 

[BrianV]

So what bit of democracy don't you understand ?

I suppose you call what they now have your idea of democracy, I understand only too well & this is a bloody disaster that all you war hungry fools are I'm sure proud of!
If this is democracy give me independence any day!

 

[BrianV]

Well written and measured and rational

Sadly it may well involve the death of many innocent Ukrainians and even their elected leader but I really hope they do prevail

What's a few million dead or displaced when you get what you want!

 

[hoff135]

I think the idea of russia invading and sweeping across former soviet states (now In nato) is pretty much dead. His army has shown itself to be inept, and would be cut to pieces by nato air power.

However, somehow this current situation needs to be resolved. I'm afraid putin may get ever more desperate to claim some sort of victory. As it stands I think ukraine might actually win, or make putins victory so costly it wasn't worth the war in the first place. I think he will think twice before trying the west.

Now to get out of this without using atomic bombs, or having a reactor blown up

 

[JP1]

I suppose you call what they now have your idea of democracy, I understand only too well & this is a bloody disaster that all you war hungry fools are I'm sure proud of!
If this is democracy give me independence any day!

I'm not a war hungry fool, I support the international community's support for what they can do for Ukraine. Like every civilised individual I wish we could do more

I am sure democracy in Ukraine isn't perfect, like Churchill once said it's not perfect but more attractive than all the other options

From the get go you've swallowed and parroted the kremlin line that Zelenskyy poked the hornets nest too far. No, Putin invaded and shot another country up . Full stop. Period.

 

[JP1]

What's a few million dead or displaced when you get what you want!

I didn't shoot the dead. Zelenskyy didn't shoot his own people . Why the hell are you still apologising for this lunatic ?

 

[BrianV]

I'm not a war hungry fool, I support the international community's support for what they can do for Ukraine. Like every civilised individual I wish we could do more

I am sure democracy in Ukraine isn't perfect, like Churchill once said it's not perfect but more attractive than all the other options

From the get go you've swallowed and parroted the kremlin line that Zelenskyy poked the hornets nest too far. No, Putin invaded and shot another country up . Full stop. Period.

You keep telling yourself that to try & make yourself feel less guilty at the final outcome!

 

[BrianV]

I didn't shoot the dead. Zelenskyy didn't shoot his own people . Why the hell are you still apologising for this lunatic ?

Which of the two lunatics did you have in mind?

 

[JP1]

You keep telling yourself that to try & make yourself feel less guilty at the final outcome!

I could reply with exactly the same line. Can you live with your comments supporting a war criminal?

 

[JP1]

Which of the two lunatics did you have in mind?

Nice trolling, only one Putin

 

[Widgetone]

No point in continuing this exchange, a certain mind is made up somehow. Farming can be lonely!
Strangely enough, reminds me of the relentless Covid thread with a gentleman from Essex.

Saw yesterday that some conspiracy people think the whole shebang in Ukraine is a hoax ffs.

 

[JohnGalway]

So what bit of democracy don't you understand ?

Starts after the first letter when "ictatorship" doesn't follow.

 

[BrianV]

I could reply with exactly the same line. Can you live with your comments supporting a war criminal?

Sure you should learn to read, at no time have I supported Putin other than to say it was not unreasonable to expect Ukraine to stay out of NATO & if necessary the EU, to me that was always preferable to the inevitable consequences we now have, on the other hand you & your war hungry friends have what you always wanted a bloody fine mess in the vain hope Putin would lose, anyone with half a brain would realise this wasn't going to happen once the West chickened out.
Enjoy the spectacle that you always wanted!!

 

[DrWazzock]

Just waiting now for the Russians to rocket a Polish airfield.

I think the idea of russia invading and sweeping across former soviet states (now In nato) is pretty much dead. His army has shown itself to be inept, and would be cut to pieces by nato air power.

However, somehow this current situation needs to be resolved. I'm afraid putin may get ever more desperate to claim some sort of victory. As it stands I think ukraine might actually win, or make putins victory so costly it wasn't worth the war in the first place. I think he will think twice before trying the west.

Now to get out of this without using atomic bombs, or having a reactor blown up

He won’t blow up reactor deliberately. Too close to Russia. But he might use a nuke if he’s really cornered.

 

[Danllan]

Sure you should learn to read, at no time have I supported Putin other than to say it was not unreasonable to expect Ukraine to stay out of NATO & if necessary the EU, to me that was always preferable to the inevitable consequences we now have, on the other hand you & your war hungry friends have what you always wanted a bloody fine mess in the vain hope Putin would lose, anyone with half a brain would realise this wasn't going to happen once the West chickened out.
Enjoy the spectacle that you always wanted!!

Can you explain to us the practical difference between a man who claims not to want more heat but, anyway, tells an arsonist that throwing wood on his fire is going to satisfy him, and a man who actively encourages more burning?

 

[BrianV]

Can you explain to us the practical difference between a man who claims not to want a larger fire but, anyway, tells an arsonist that throwing wood on his fire is going to satisfy him, and a man who actively encourages more burning?

Seems to me you are the one pouring petrol on the fire, far better not to start the fire in the first place if you can't control where it goes!

 

[Danllan]

Can you explain to us the practical difference between a man who claims not to want more heat but, anyway, tells an arsonist that throwing wood on his fire is going to satisfy him, and a man who actively encourages more burning?

Seems to me you are the one pouring petrol on the fire, far better not to start the fire in the first place if you can't control where it goes!

That's a 'no' then; a pity, but just so we know.

 

[BrianV]

That's a 'no' then; a pity, but just so we know.

Brother tried to order red diesel this morning to keep cattle fed, no one would take the order before end of the month.
No worries at least Ukraine can choose what they want to do!
Morons!