Tractors holding value

[Cmoran]

Lol[emoji1787] hi Pete, really good value for money when new but seem to need to spend so much time at the shop getting sorted out and because of that there is always good low hours second hand tractors for sale at even better prices, being German they should be a really good tractor but think their electrics like the later model Fendt's lets them down and if you’re after a vario they use a ZF vario transmission which like JD's vario is suspect when used for heavy constant ground engaging work and hauling heavy loads on the road but to their credit Deutz do seem to back their dealers and customers some what so dealers should have no excuse to be a holes

Best to avoid the newer deutz they are an absolute ball of sh1te and yes I am talking from experience it’s the one machine I hate paying the monthly installment on!!! Jd be best bet for resale value around here anyway but not much blue in this area jd mf and Claas mostly. Actually wouldn’t mind trying a claas

 

[Tassie Farmer]

Best to avoid the newer deutz they are an absolute ball of sh1te and yes I am talking from experience it’s the one machine I hate paying the monthly installment on!!! Jd be best bet for resale value around here anyway but not much blue in this area jd mf and Claas mostly. Actually wouldn’t mind trying a claas

Yeah I agree with you although here the Vario JD's don’t hold their resale as well as their power shift tractors and I also like the Class too but unfortunately they use the same ZF Vario transmission as the Deutz so I won’t be getting one

 

[Tassie Farmer]

Best to avoid the newer deutz they are an absolute ball of sh1te and yes I am talking from experience it’s the one machine I hate paying the monthly installment!!!

What are your Deutz dealers like where you are, are they supporting their customers that have issues?

 

[newhollandcruzr]

Best to avoid the newer deutz they are an absolute ball of sh1te and yes I am talking from experience it’s the one machine I hate paying the monthly installment on!!! Jd be best bet for resale value around here anyway but not much blue in this area jd mf and Claas mostly. Actually wouldn’t mind trying a claas

What model Deutz have you had problems with and what ? Cheers

 

[stevedave]

Yeah I agree with you although here the Vario JD's don’t hold their resale as well as their power shift tractors and I also like the Class too but unfortunately they use the same ZF Vario transmission as the Deutz so I won’t be getting one

What model of Claas are you thinking of the 500 and 600 c-matic use a Claas gearbox not ZF.

 

[thesilentone]

When buying a new tractor, I would look at the whole make up of the deal and what the change price is irrespective of the price of new and the s/h value. In addition, what is your personal tax position and what advantages can be taken. Then, if you are taking finance, what the terms are, if you can settle early etc, etc..........Look at the actual cost to you taking in the whole payment period and beyond which must include running cost (Fuel/hr + depreciation + services + tyres etc etc)

The market values are only really accurate when comparing auction prices, so a visit to here: https://www.cheffins.co.uk/machinery-vintage-auctions/cambridge-machinery.htm

or here: https://www.wilsonsauctions.com/upcoming-auctions?category=Plant-Machinery


if you want to see what the various models are making second-hand.

Finally, you do all this and then find a suitable tractor you like, then find after year 7 it is only worth it's weight, so go carefully. Good luck.


Should of added (because a shiny new tractor can dazzel us ) Make sure you are 100% clear what you want, power, services, clearance's, weight etc etc etc ............

 

[Tassie Farmer]

What model of Claas are you thinking of the 500 and 600 c-matic use a Claas gearbox not ZF.

Was thinking the 800 c-matic, was told they use ZF CVT, they have good FPT engines, I didn’t know Class had their own CVT and haven’t heard anything about their reliability in highly loaded ground work, just know that Deutz with ZF Vario is suspect, I like the Class 800 CVT tractors but can’t afford to risk downtime due to known transmission problems

 

[fiat 9090]

What model valtra are you comparing to the NH , I have a t254 which is a fantastic tractor to work , very good on fuel and loves hard work , I've seen NH doing the same work and the pressure came on they were allergic to it, the local NH dealer has a new workshop full of split nearly new tractors and a Q outside waiting to get in.

and the valtra dealer has no q reason being that for every 2 valtras sold there are 10 new hollands

 

[Tassie Farmer]

and the valtra dealer has no q reason being that for every 2 valtras sold there are 10 new hollands

Well I have nothing against Valtra's, our NH dealership is also a Valtra dealer and I’d say for every 2 valtra's they sell more like 30+ NH's and it’s the first time I’ve ever heard of a NH being allergic to hard work, C-NH built for hard work and our Fendt MF dealership has a nice very large new workshop that is often a bit clogged up with split Fendt's but as they do sell a few of them then it is expected you’ll always see some in the workshop and I’ve also never heard of them being allergic to hard work

 

[Yale]

We run 3 Valtras old to newish.

The trick as with any tractor is to pick a model with its big brothers transmission and lift capacity but a smaller engine.

This means components are not overly stressed.

Our smallest Valmet (1995) has had two major repairs however it boils down to it being a light tractor and us using it right on its limit.

Otherwise it’s been minor issues and a hydraulic pump failure which was a known problem and that was fixed under warranty.

I wouldn’t buy a high horsepower Valtra,we bought a Deutz with ZF backend however the new Valtra 4 series will be a different kettle of fish.

 

[Hilly]

Kubota , hell of a long warranty ?

 

[Cmoran]

What model Deutz have you had problems with and what ? Cheers

It’s a 6150.4 3 radiators 3 pto rebuilds full replacement of all diesel pumps injectors and fuel lines just glad it was all under warranty!! Deleted adblue few months ago it solved nox sensor problems other then that it’s Bullett proof ?

 

[james ds]

It’s a 6150.4 3 radiators 3 pto rebuilds full replacement of all diesel pumps injectors and fuel lines just glad it was all under warranty!! Deleted adblue few months ago it solved nox sensor problems other then that it’s Bullett proof ?

Who was your diesel supplier , any trouble I ever had with fuel pumps were related to poor fuel.

 

[Cmoran]

Who was your diesel supplier , any trouble I ever had with fuel pumps were related to poor fuel.

Got it tested was no problem with it and the other 5 tractors never gave bother!!

 

[D14]

New

Nothing in it really between CNH and Fendt because it’s the gap between new and used that matters rather than the price. CNH cheaper new so cheaper used and Fendt expensive new but worth more used. JD are expensive new and worth CNH money used unless it’s a JD classic model. Not sure on Valtra but they look good value used to me so must be cheaper to buy new. We are finding that buying at 3 yrs old, 3000hrs with warranty left and then selling at 6 yrs, 5000 hrs to be the most economical. It costs us 1 expensive service for warranty validation, then 3 in house services. The last tractor cost us £7500 in depreciation and service costs so £3.75/hour. You then replace it and start again with the next one. We never factor in the price to change because it’s a separate deal so you need to treat each tractor individually.
I must admit though I like the sound of an 8 yr Fendt warranty so may well look into this as buying new might end up a better option just because of this.

 

[bumkin]

i think its not only depreciation but what it costs to swap and running cost its difficult to come to a conclusion for years our main tractors were case international and we had little bother as i have mentioned before we still have a case maxum she is mainly on yard duty hedge cutting and post knocking apart from tyres and one pair of track rod ends and a couple of batteries she has cost nothing she was twenty eight grand new and is twenty three years old so if she died tomorrow she would have cost about £1200 per year in depreciation but what would it cost to replace her? as far as im concerned there is nothing made today that can compare to her, any ideas any one? our main tractors now are deeres and they are very good but like all modern tractors they are common rail and add blue and a load of electrics its not that they go wrong but i cant get my mind around the electrics i am told its because i am like my maxum over the hill

 

[thesilentone]

Nothing in it really between CNH and Fendt because it’s the gap between new and used that matters rather than the price. CNH cheaper new so cheaper used and Fendt expensive new but worth more used. JD are expensive new and worth CNH money used unless it’s a JD classic model. Not sure on Valtra but they look good value used to me so must be cheaper to buy new. We are finding that buying at 3 yrs old, 3000hrs with warranty left and then selling at 6 yrs, 5000 hrs to be the most economical. It costs us 1 expensive service for warranty validation, then 3 in house services. The last tractor cost us £7500 in depreciation and service costs so £3.75/hour. You then replace it and start again with the next one. We never factor in the price to change because it’s a separate deal so you need to treat each tractor individually.
I must admit though I like the sound of an 8 yr Fendt warranty so may well look into this as buying new might end up a better option just because of this.

I'm unsure with modern tractors, however does fuel consumption vary much for each make, say 150hp. Many years ago, I used to dyno test tractors, and it was quite shocking the difference in g/hr under load for different makes of a similar hp.

We are at a time where every penny counts and 2-3 ltr/hr more can mount up over several thousand hours.

 

[Chae1]

Nothing in it really between CNH and Fendt because it’s the gap between new and used that matters rather than the price. CNH cheaper new so cheaper used and Fendt expensive new but worth more used. JD are expensive new and worth CNH money used unless it’s a JD classic model. Not sure on Valtra but they look good value used to me so must be cheaper to buy new. We are finding that buying at 3 yrs old, 3000hrs with warranty left and then selling at 6 yrs, 5000 hrs to be the most economical. It costs us 1 expensive service for warranty validation, then 3 in house services. The last tractor cost us £7500 in depreciation and service costs so £3.75/hour. You then replace it and start again with the next one. We never factor in the price to change because it’s a separate deal so you need to treat each tractor individually.
I must admit though I like the sound of an 8 yr Fendt warranty so may well look into this as buying new might end up a better option just because of this.

I disagree, a JD worth a lot more than a new Holland 2nd hand.

 

[D14]

I disagree, a JD worth a lot more than a new Holland 2nd hand.

When we bought our last tractor in the spring we looked extensively at the 3yr old 3000 hour market and when it came down to it the JD and CNH were the same prices. The country is a wash with used JD tractors and they might well be advertised at silly high prices but when it comes down to paying there isn;t anything in it. Our local JD depot must have 60 tractors in, yet on there website theres around 15 listed so it looks like Mr JD is trying to play with the used market.

 

[Chae1]

When we bought our last tractor in the spring we looked extensively at the 3yr old 3000 hour market and when it came down to it the JD and CNH were the same prices. The country is a wash with used JD tractors and they might well be advertised at silly high prices but when it comes down to paying there isn;t anything in it. Our local JD depot must have 60 tractors in, yet on there website theres around 15 listed so it looks like Mr JD is trying to play with the used market.

I'm impressed. I've never phoned a dealer and haggled money off a tractor when looking at used prices to compare brands.