UPDATE:midlands, dairy closure & switch to suckler

[ADHDan]

I posted a few months back regarding the closure of the our dairy and the subsequent decision to stop milking.
In the end i ordered a mix of Stabiliser and Saler for Ai of our cows & dairyX heifers which will in a few years become the cows, until then im running with the herefordX and britblueX we already have from the dairy

Feel free to give my advice on this, ---> BULLS!! Im after 2 bulls, at the minute im leaning toward a stabiliser bull for the heifers and a britblue bull to cover the cows, easy calving & temperament taking preference on both, britblue and stabiliser supposed to be pretty easy going? Ive always had hereford bulls and havent had to run for my life yet so id like to continue this trend if possible. How many cows do you folk run with a bull to get a tight calving pattern? how do you manage/rotate them? simple is what im after, will be on my own most of the time.
100 cow herd, with scope to increase to 150 if it goes well.

I can take about 230 over winter in the sheds , and have some land suited for overwintering maybe another 50 outside with woodland for shelter, winters not so bad down here, wet and wind mostly

Thanks

 

[John Chance]

Make easy calving your number one goal. Hard calving is bad for the calf, bad for the cow and bad for you. Sub clinical acidosis => dopiness => lack of colostrum for the calf, poor fertility next time for the cow, and work, stress and reduced profit for you. You don't get it back on BB style conformation. Everyone will tell you what breed to use. I have my favourite, but that doesn't matter. Choose an easy calving bull from an easy calving breed. Pay the extra for a curve bender with low birth weight and average or above average 400 DW.

Ask yourself whether you would rather sh1t a football or a golf ball. Or ask any woman that's had a child what bull you should buy.

 

[ADHDan]

yes, easy calving is high on the list, which is why i settled on salers and stabilisers, still thought id want to be making the most of the cows though to chase the last few £
i thought Britblue wasnt too bad for calving and would come in easy calving flavours? we AI the dairy cows and have few problems....except for one sire we used this year 3 cows calved so far, all 3 needed calves pulled out dead, and the 3 cows never stood again and went to the knackerman...never seen anything like it, dreading the next few to calve to the same sire . but in all honesty our cows calve a BB as easy as they do a calf from the hereford bull that sees the heifers

Anyone use stabiliser and have first hand experience of them calving?

i guess it would simplify alot to run heifers and cows to the same bulls and AI the best cows for replacements, i dont want to lose out on the cows shitting golfballs when they could drop a tennisball though you know?

 

[som farmer]

just thinking, if you were a serious milk from forage, dairy farmer, giving up for, whatever. How would the grass skills that you had used, on a beef suckle, reflect against the top 25% of suckle herds ? As dairymen, we measure, plan, and control grass usage, paddock grazing, or back fencing. As I travel about, you see fields, with just a few sucklers, or beef stores in the whole field. As I have found out through use, how much extra yield you can get from grass, by either strip grazing, and/or back fencing, which then improves grass quality, which means more beef/milk. Also, if you were block calving, you would have the skills learn't to make a really tight block calving. It would be interesting to see what some farmers are achieving, should be good results.

 

[Paul E]

Don't aim for low birth weights solely. An american farmer said "Which is the easiest to calve, a 100lb bowling ball, or a 100lb eel?" And length puts value in your calves, so forget about breed, buy length.
(And not too much bone, so you'll be buying blue?!)

 

[deleted user 837354]

Are you sure it is legal to graze in woodland?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

yes, easy calving is high on the list, which is why i settled on salers and stabilisers, still thought id want to be making the most of the cows though to chase the last few £
i thought Britblue wasnt too bad for calving and would come in easy calving flavours? we AI the dairy cows and have few problems....except for one sire we used this year 3 cows calved so far, all 3 needed calves pulled out dead, and the 3 cows never stood again and went to the knackerman...never seen anything like it, dreading the next few to calve to the same sire . but in all honesty our cows calve a BB as easy as they do a calf from the hereford bull that sees the heifers

Anyone use stabiliser and have first hand experience of them calving?

i guess it would simplify alot to run heifers and cows to the same bulls and AI the best cows for replacements, i dont want to lose out on the cows shitting golfballs when they could drop a tennisball though you know?

Been using stabiliser for several years now and only assist 2-3%, generally due to presentation issues. 1 this year was twisted uterus and 1 with head tucked down.
They are certainly easy calving in general though I guess any breed can have it's poor examples. Grow well too. Just don't expect to top the store market.
What AI bulls did you use?

 

[saly123]

Instead of buying bulls, you could ai.? Would keep a tight calving l period, a choice of as many bulls for cows/heifers.

 

[Woolless]

@ADHDan why not stick with the Hereford if you're getting on alright with them? AA bull for hybrid vigour?

 

[kill]

@ADHDan why not stick with the Hereford if you're getting on alright with them? AA bull for hybrid vigour?

Surely this depends on your end market?

Fattening with a niche market for Herefords ?? or store?

Work out your end buyer and then work back to your breeding????

 

[ADHDan]

just thinking, if you were a serious milk from forage, dairy farmer, giving up for, whatever. How would the grass skills that you had used, on a beef suckle, reflect against the top 25% of suckle herds ? As dairymen, we measure, plan, and control grass usage, paddock grazing, or back fencing. As I travel about, you see fields, with just a few sucklers, or beef stores in the whole field. As I have found out through use, how much extra yield you can get from grass, by either strip grazing, and/or back fencing, which then improves grass quality, which means more beef/milk. Also, if you were block calving, you would have the skills learn't to make a really tight block calving. It would be interesting to see what some farmers are achieving, should be good results.

We strip graze new lays of grass in spring and then rotate around grass fields close to the parlour, couple of the bigger fields are split into sections, later in the year its generally just let them on whatever has the most grass at the time, but completely agree if your prepared to fence and move the cattle around topcut/dress at the right times you can push the grass on no end

Don't aim for low birth weights solely. An american farmer said "Which is the easiest to calve, a 100lb bowling ball, or a 100lb eel?" And length puts value in your calves, so forget about breed, buy length.
(And not too much bone, so you'll be buying blue?!)

is it salers that

Don't aim for low birth weights solely. An american farmer said "Which is the easiest to calve, a 100lb bowling ball, or a 100lb eel?" And length puts value in your calves, so forget about breed, buy length.
(And not too much bone, so you'll be buying blue?!)

long and thin..isn't that the salers party trick? i remember reading they called the calves rakies or something?
BB would of been strictly for 3rd calvers with them being able to calve the bigger arses but thats just what we've done on the dairyside, its hereford bull or HF AI for the heifers and HF or BB AI for the cows and then hereford bull would run with the herd and make sure nothing got missed.

 

[ADHDan]

Are you sure it is legal to graze in woodland?

wont be grqazing in woodland, just moving the fence back a few M so they can get under the branches for shelter

 

[ADHDan]

Been using stabiliser for several years now and only assist 2-3%, generally due to presentation issues. 1 this year was twisted uterus and 1 with head tucked down.
They are certainly easy calving in general though I guess any breed can have it's poor examples. Grow well too. Just don't expect to top the store market.
What AI bulls did you use?

stabiliser was black premier and stan the man, the saler is gulliver and krypton.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

While I agree calving ease is very important, I also think you have to look at what breed is in demand in your area when you come to selling the calves.

 

[ADHDan]

Surely this depends on your end market?

Fattening with a niche market for Herefords ?? or store?

Work out your end buyer and then work back to your breeding????

we contacted local abattoir, they said they don't do Hereford anymore its mostly stabiliser, that was the final push to go stabs, they are also interested in a supply contract but wanted to see what happens Brexit before , would be ideal because its within spitting distance

 

[ADHDan]

While I agree calving ease is very important, I also think you have to look at what breed is in demand in your area when you come to selling the calves.

hence the BB , Newark market the BB's sell well, see a lot of lim there that makes top bracket but I don't want lims

 

[ploughman1963]

yes, easy calving is high on the list, which is why i settled on salers and stabilisers, still thought id want to be making the most of the cows though to chase the last few £
i thought Britblue wasnt too bad for calving and would come in easy calving flavours? we AI the dairy cows and have few problems....except for one sire we used this year 3 cows calved so far, all 3 needed calves pulled out dead, and the 3 cows never stood again and went to the knackerman...never seen anything like it, dreading the next few to calve to the same sire . but in all honesty our cows calve a BB as easy as they do a calf from the hereford bull that sees the heifers

Anyone use stabiliser and have first hand experience of them calving?

i guess it would simplify alot to run heifers and cows to the same bulls and AI the best cows for replacements, i dont want to lose out on the cows shitting golfballs when they could drop a tennisball though you know?

I ran stabiliser bulls with our dairy herd to sweep up after AI and cover anything not eligible for black and white. Good temperament, on average 5 day shorter gestation period so slightly smaller calve but with terrific 'get up and go' and calves would fill out in just a few days overtaking other breeds that were bigger at birth. The first year we had great difficulty shifting the calves but in year 2 I had buyers queuing up all quoting how well the calves had grown the previous year.
Switching to autumn block, difficulties with serving on concrete and using RMS means we have ceased with the Stabilisers but at the time it was the right thing for us.

 

[som farmer]

wont be grqazing in woodland, just moving the fence back a few M so they can get under the branches for shelter

its called silviculture (spelling ?), and is being promoted by the conservation bods

 

[ADHDan]

its called silviculture (spelling ?), and is being promoted by the conservation bods
[/QUOTE
ive always been told its good for forest/woods to have animals through them, 'scarification' breaks up the bracken/brambles and other spikey sh*t and lets other stuff get a chance at growing. I might have to look into it, ive got about 10acres of woods that can be 'promoted' , any schemes/subs on this?

 

[Farmer Fin]

Be mindful of a blue bull back on blue x from dairy. Seem to end up throwing some monster calves from experience. Also a lot of beef AI straws sold to dairy farmer have very good direct calving ease figures but not so good daughter figures as often selecting for a small pelvis.