Vintage World Style

[Ley253]

It's pointless trying to argue with you so I won't bother

But one thing I would say is we all have choices, you constantly bring up your financial status, being a pensioner and the like you don't get any prizes for running kit on a shoestring as you do.
Also your choice has cost you a lot of matches in the last year or 2 due to your equipment needing lengthy repairs to keep things running.

Time, money, resources, facilities all cost in some way.

For most ploughing is a hobby that we choose to do for a few weekend a year being able to enter the sport without to many barriers is what is needed to keep things going.

As for my own transport yes I run a 7.5t truck

I started with a 4x4 and trailer but i am fortunate enough that i can store a truck away from home and limit the wear and tear on my 4x4.

As for storage would I park my outfit on a lorry full time not on your life the plough alone cost more than a lorry never mind the tractor not sure what my insurance would say about my security arrangements.

I also have grand father rights so no change to licence

As for cost running a truck is no free ride

Yes cheap to tax and insure but they all breakdown.

As for disputing your figures I have read my post above several times and can't see anywhere that I mention your running costs or any other costs.

On the plus side to a truck

Safer as my outfit is comfortable within the limits of the lorry limits

Better braking, and less mpg on the lorry than the discovery 4

But as I have said if i needed to do it on the cheap a lorry is not that option in my experience.

Paragraph two has me mystified, I have had no breakdowns for several years.(That I ca
n remember, that is, and with my memory as it now is, there could have been some, but I am sure I have never had to be recovered home.)
Paragraph ten. No you did not mention my running costs, but I did mention the recovery insurance premium, which I think you forgot, or missed, as you mentioned green flag.
To conclude, I have not said that either form of transport is the best, only that a lorry can be cheaper than is thought. These days, a bit more hassle to get a start with, but as you say, probably better in the long run.
Let us agree to disagree where needed, this weather is depressing enough without further gloom descending.
Returning to the post title, vintage world style would be a very good idea, though I think it would either have to be open to all, or become a minefield of complaints, for even then, ploughs were modified, where would my TS 86, with Fiskar KH bodies fit in for example.

 

[Vintage Auctioneer]

It's pointless trying to argue with you so I won't bother

But one thing I would say is we all have choices, you constantly bring up your financial status, being a pensioner and the like you don't get any prizes for running kit on a shoestring as you do.
Also your choice has cost you a lot of matches in the last year or 2 due to your equipment needing lengthy repairs to keep things running.

Time, money, resources, facilities all cost in some way.

For most ploughing is a hobby that we choose to do for a few weekend a year being able to enter the sport without to many barriers is what is needed to keep things going.

As for my own transport yes I run a 7.5t truck

I started with a 4x4 and trailer but i am fortunate enough that i can store a truck away from home and limit the wear and tear on my 4x4.

As for storage would I park my outfit on a lorry full time not on your life the plough alone cost more than a lorry never mind the tractor not sure what my insurance would say about my security arrangements.

I also have grand father rights so no change to licence

As for cost running a truck is no free ride

Yes cheap to tax and insure but they all breakdown.

As for disputing your figures I have read my post above several times and can't see anywhere that I mention your running costs or any other costs.

On the plus side to a truck

Safer as my outfit is comfortable within the limits of the lorry limits

Better braking, and less mpg on the lorry than the discovery 4

But as I have said if i needed to do it on the cheap a lorry is not that option in my experience.

It's pointless trying to argue with you so I won't bother

But one thing I would say is we all have choices, you constantly bring up your financial status, being a pensioner and the like you don't get any prizes for running kit on a shoestring as you do.
Also your choice has cost you a lot of matches in the last year or 2 due to your equipment needing lengthy repairs to keep things running.

Time, money, resources, facilities all cost in some way.

For most ploughing is a hobby that we choose to do for a few weekend a year being able to enter the sport without to many barriers is what is needed to keep things going.

As for my own transport yes I run a 7.5t truck

I started with a 4x4 and trailer but i am fortunate enough that i can store a truck away from home and limit the wear and tear on my 4x4.

As for storage would I park my outfit on a lorry full time not on your life the plough alone cost more than a lorry never mind the tractor not sure what my insurance would say about my security arrangements.

I also have grand father rights so no change to licence

As for cost running a truck is no free ride

Yes cheap to tax and insure but they all breakdown.

As for disputing your figures I have read my post above several times and can't see anywhere that I mention your running costs or any other costs.

On the plus side to a truck

Safer as my outfit is comfortable within the limits of the lorry limits

Better braking, and less mpg on the lorry than the discovery 4

But as I have said if i needed to do it on the cheap a lorry is not that option in my experience.

Paragraph two has me mystified, I have had no breakdowns for several years.(That I ca
n remember, that is, and with my memory as it now is, there could have been some, but I am sure I have never had to be recovered home.)
Paragraph ten. No you did not mention my running costs, but I did mention the recovery insurance premium, which I think you forgot, or missed, as you mentioned green flag.
To conclude, I have not said that either form of transport is the best, only that a lorry can be cheaper than is thought. These days, a bit more hassle to get a start with, but as you say, probably better in the long run.
Let us agree to disagree where needed, this weather is depressing enough without further gloom descending.
Returning to the post title, vintage world style would be a very good idea, though I think it would either have to be open to all, or become a minefield of complaints, for even then, ploughs were modified, where would my TS 86, with Fiskar KH bodies fit in for example.

B

--
Back to ploughing - a snap from Rillington YFC match on Sunday. It was unbelievably dry and good to plough. Refreshing to see so many classic tractors and ploughs from the 1980's & 1990's (the missing decades) It was interesting to note that there were 9 entries in the three furrow conventional class and only 6 in the classic class !
For the technically minded, I have upgraded from a Disco 4 to a Disco 5, the hidden benefit in losing the chassis is much more room to play with on gross train weight and rear axle weight. I am now comfortably legal. After 4 years and 101,000 miles of sterling service it was a reluctant change, but I am very happy with how the Disco 5 tows. The journey from Thirsk to Rillington involves a 1 in 4 hill climb on the A170 at Sutton Bank!

 

[Fergie Ploughman]

Wow, I am amazed that's under 3500kg...3 furrows and PAVT wheels ??

View attachment 860225
Weight is a potential issue - MF 360 + 3F Kverneland Super Hydrein + Dale Kane 16' trailer = 3,480Kg over a certified weighbridge. Add a decent toolbox and your at the limit.

 

[Roy Stokes]

Wow, I am amazed that's under 3500kg...3 furrows and PAVT wheels ??

And me

 

[Roy Stokes]

The cost of that lot, is probably five times the cost of my old truck.Then you have to add in the insurance and the higher road tax for a more modern vehicle. Oh and no chance of towing a small caravan so if away any distance, or time, hotel costs!

Hmmm, nice comfortable Disco or your rattly heap of shite ?

 

[Lurker]

Harry

Once again you only look at your own status
Most people don't have the space to store tractor and lorry and the kit needed so its day to day vehicle + trailer so cost is only for trailer as they already pay for tax and insurance

Towing a caravan behind a lorry is also a no no as you need a class 2 as not many caravans under 749kg anything more takes you over 8249kg max train weight.

Also owning an older cheap truck has you exposed to potential breakdown and recovery issues.

More chance the rac / green flag will get you home cheap compared to a 7.5 ton truck.

Fergie is right when he says transport kills the classes

World style would be more supported if they could go on ifor trailers

Anyone under 40 still needs an extra test to tow a trailer another restriction

Us under grandfather rights have a big advantage to start with.

If you sit a trailer test you can extend your grandfather gtw rights from 8250kg up to 11ton, which means you can tow a larger caravan.

 

[Dealer]

Not my understanding

If you sit a trailer test you can extend your grandfather gtw rights from 8250kg up to 11ton, which means you can tow a larger caravan.

Which test do you think is needed

 

[Lurker]

View attachment 860310View attachment 860310BView attachment 860310--
Back to ploughing - a snap from Rillington YFC match on Sunday. It was unbelievably dry and good to plough. Refreshing to see so many classic tractors and ploughs from the 1980's & 1990's (the missing decades) It was interesting to note that there were 9 entries in the three furrow conventional class and only 6 in the classic class !
For the technically minded, I have upgraded from a Disco 4 to a Disco 5, the hidden benefit in losing the chassis is much more room to play with on gross train weight and rear axle weight. I am now comfortably legal. After 4 years and 101,000 miles of sterling service it was a reluctant change, but I am very happy with how the Disco 5 tows. The journey from Thirsk to Rillington involves a 1 in 4 hill climb on the A170 at Sutton Bank!

But while you're more legal now though, what is the kerb weight of a Disco 5? 2300kg. As it's recommended that you should only tow 85% of the kerb weight or the tow vehicle for safety if a novice, 90% if your confident and 100% if experienced. Nobody should ever tow more than the towing capacity of the tow vehicle which for a Disco 5 is 3500kg, which means while your gtw is certainly more legal the down side is you're now pushing the boundaries of the kerb weight to driver experience harder.

Nothing is ever simple is it, my thoughts go with what suits you if space is a compromise then 4x4 and trailer, if you do a lot of matches and travel a fair distance and have the room then a 7.5t lorry may suit you best and feels more stable on the road than 4x4 and trailer, a swb truck has better balance and gets stuck less so, you also get 5t pickups but that can limit you outfit down somewhat too. In the end choose what your more comfortable with for your needs.

But on topic think you all agree some new class that fills the current years that are missing need doing.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

If you sit a trailer test you can extend your grandfather gtw rights from 8250kg up to 11ton, which means you can tow a larger caravan.

no not at all

 

[Lurker]

Not my understanding



Which test do you think is needed

I must confess I got it wrong the test takes you from a gtw of 8250kgs to 12t not 11t as I previously stated.

The test is called a C1+E test here is a link below which explains it further, the down side is that requires a medical but it's unclear as to whether this would mean regular medicals afterwards like for a HGV.

Category C1+E (7.5 tonne and trailer)

This licence category will allow you to drive a 7.5 tonne vehicle towing a trailer that exceeds 750kgs. If you passed your car driving test prior to January 1997 then you will have gained a C1+E licence but this will be restricted to trailers not weighing more than 750kgs Continue reading →

www.centraltransporttraining.co.uk

 

[Dealer]

Wow, I am amazed that's under 3500kg...3 furrows and PAVT wheels ??

I must confess I got it wrong the test takes you from a gtw of 8250kgs to 12t not 11t as I previously stated.

The test is called a C1+E test here is a link below which explains it further, the down side is that requires a medical but it's unclear as to whether this would mean regular medicals afterwards like for a HGV.

Category C1+E (7.5 tonne and trailer)

This licence category will allow you to drive a 7.5 tonne vehicle towing a trailer that exceeds 750kgs. If you passed your car driving test prior to January 1997 then you will have gained a C1+E licence but this will be restricted to trailers not weighing more than 750kgs Continue reading →

www.centraltransporttraining.co.uk

Not just a trailer test though I have looked long and hard at it before

Test costs are £750 + vat locally

 

[mike.l]

Test costs are £750 + vat locally That's just not cheep take me all year to save that out my pension !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mike

 

[Lurker]

Not just a trailer test though I have looked long and hard at it before

Test costs are £750 + vat locally

I never said it was just a trailer test nor cheap, sorry if you felt that was implied but at least I wasn't losing the plot you guys had me doubting myself, but for those who perhaps think you can just tow a larger caravan (as that's what they already have) behind a lorry as living quarters thinking that is allowed when it isn't, well this test would keep those people keep within the law for matches and shows and I was merely pointing out that it was an option, although yes it's not cheap a lot cheaper than penalty points & fines etc.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

I never said it was just a trailer test nor cheap, sorry if you felt that was implied but at least I wasn't losing the plot you guys had me doubting myself, but for those who perhaps think you can just tow a larger caravan (as that's what they already have) behind a lorry as living quarters thinking that is allowed when it isn't, well this test would keep those people keep within the law for matches and shows and I was merely pointing out that it was an option, although yes it's not cheap a lot cheaper than penalty points & fines etc.

the trailer test is needed for them that past their test after about 1997, this would allow the driver to tow a 3.5 tonne gross trailer, providing the towing vehicle is plated for doing so, and the towing vehicle under 3.5 tonne gross
the grandfathers rights for drivers passing the car test pre 1996 also has a 107 exemption applied to the license,
this allows them to drive upto 7.5 tonne gross maximum on the prime mover or towing vehicle, along with a trailer upto the maximum of 750kg, with an overall gross train weight of 8250kg only,
it is not possible to use a plated weight 7.5 tonne gross lorry part loaded to tow a trailer above 750kg gross. even if
the lorry weighs 4750kg + 1750kg trailer so GTW is 6.5 tonne, and is illegal, as they go off the plated gross weight of towing vehicle,
it is possible to down rate the lorry to say 7000 kg if you can get away with it still being legal @ that weight loaded,
and this would allow a trailer or caravan weighing upto 1250kg still giving a GTW max of 8250kg,
down to the nitty gritty the 107 exemption only covers to a max Gross Train Weight of 8250kg however you get to that weight,
Most 7.500kg lorries do have a GTW of 11000kg providing the driver holds to license to do so,
in order to go above the 8250kg upto the 11000kg weights, you need the C+E or old class 1 hgv entitlement,
now when you pass your car test, it only covers you to drive a vehicle upto 3.5 tonne gross train weight, with or without a trailer,

so passing your trailer test does not cover you to pull a bigger trailer or caravan above 750kg on a 7.500kg plated lorry, due to the 107 exemption attached to the pre 1996 license

 

[Lurker]

the trailer test is needed for them that past their test after about 1997, this would allow the driver to tow a 3.5 tonne gross trailer, providing the towing vehicle is plated for doing so, and the towing vehicle under 3.5 tonne gross
the grandfathers rights for drivers passing the car test pre 1996 also has a 107 exemption applied to the license,
this allows them to drive upto 7.5 tonne gross maximum on the prime mover or towing vehicle, along with a trailer upto the maximum of 750kg, with an overall gross train weight of 8250kg only,
it is not possible to use a plated weight 7.5 tonne gross lorry part loaded to tow a trailer above 750kg gross. even if
the lorry weighs 4750kg + 1750kg trailer so GTW is 6.5 tonne, and is illegal, as they go off the plated gross weight of towing vehicle,
it is possible to down rate the lorry to say 7000 kg if you can get away with it still being legal @ that weight loaded,
and this would allow a trailer or caravan weighing upto 1250kg still giving a GTW max of 8250kg,
down to the nitty gritty the 107 exemption only covers to a max Gross Train Weight of 8250kg however you get to that weight,
Most 7.500kg lorries do have a GTW of 11000kg providing the driver holds to license to do so,
in order to go above the 8250kg upto the 11000kg weights, you need the C+E or old class 1 hgv entitlement,
now when you pass your car test, it only covers you to drive a vehicle upto 3.5 tonne gross train weight, with or without a trailer,

so passing your trailer test does not cover you to pull a bigger trailer or caravan above 750kg on a 7.500kg plated lorry, due to the 107 exemption attached to the pre 1996 license

Whatever mate, if that’s what you think that’s fine, it’s no concern to me others can read into this whatever they choose too as well l, I’ve verified it on DVLA site and I’m confident in what I’ve stated to be the case, to backup again what I’ve said if anybody wants to check then read section too of this UK government leaflet.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/804372/inf30-requirements-for-towing-trailers-in-great-britain.pdf

I’m just trying to help others I gave up my lorry a while ago so it no longer concerns me, I’ll go push keyboard away again and just sit back and chuckle to myself when I read all of the squabbling in future.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Whatever mate, if that’s what you think that’s fine, it’s no concern to me others can read into this whatever they choose too as well l, I’ve verified it on DVLA site and I’m confident in what I’ve stated to be the case, to backup again what I’ve said if anybody wants to check then read section too of this UK government leaflet.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/804372/inf30-requirements-for-towing-trailers-in-great-britain.pdf

I’m just trying to help others I gave up my lorry a while ago so it no longer concerns me, I’ll go push keyboard away again and just sit back and chuckle to myself when I read all of the squabbling in future.

that is not just a trailer test though is it, you have to do the category C theory as well, same as a HGV ridged test

my post was right in what I said above, and did not want to mislead anyone with a trailer test, thinking they could pull a trailer more than 750kg with a lorry if they passed there trailer test with a landrover and trailer

 

[Fergie Ploughman]

Isn't the key word here "combined...weight" not maximum authorised mass ?

I interpret this as I can drive a 7.5T truck on a C1E licence pulling a trailer over 750kg providing I stay under the 8,250kg limit - am I wrong ?

 

[Lurker]

that is not just a trailer test though is it, you have to do the category C theory as well, same as a HGV ridged test

my post was right in what I said above, and did not want to mislead anyone with a trailer test, thinking they could pull a trailer more than 750kg with a lorry if they passed there trailer test with a landrover and trailer

How odd that you mocked my suggestion of what is possible as a reply to which I had clearly admitted it wasn’t just a trailer test but more complex only to now say in your past responses that you made it clear that it was possible to do as I had done in my prior reply which I could not find any hint to substantiate your claim, just causing further confusion to eventually become subservient in mutual agreement. *drops the ?

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

I’ll go push keyboard away again and just sit back and chuckle to myself when I read all of the squabbling in future.

same here, I have had enough,

I know I am not always right as every day is a school day, so I will pack in on here

 

[ploughman61]

same here, I have had enough,

I know I am not always right as every day is a school day, so I will pack in on here

Got side tracked again, this thread started as vintage world class