Wanting to go no till but sit sure on the way to start

[Dan Attle]

Hi all got 250 acre mixed farm with plenty of cattle which in turn means loads of fym currently growing grass for the horse market wheat , spring barley and maize ( may drop maize yet ) , thinking ahead the grass will help the soil structure and seems a shame to plough it up and it’s heavy clay ( too heavy for roots really ) . I’ve been looking at a sim tec my only questions are with the muck about the drill not blocking up and the wheelings from muck going on and straw being taken off
Thanks

 

[SilliamWhale]

Go and visit farmers first. Ask questions and spend a few months reading stuff.

Dont make it too complicated

 

[Spud]

Do you undersow your maize with grass? That seems to help travelling, though perhaps not ideal for mowing.
In your situation, I'd start with the spring barley, where the lowest risk is of a problem. What precedes it? Wheat? Can you get a cover crop in before the barley? Get a contractor in to dd a field for you for a looksee?
As Will says, do some reading and talking.
Bear in mind though, many of the books are written by americans - who farm in an entirely different climate to us - hotter summer, colder winter, veritable desert in between. Hence their challenges are very different to ours. Pinch of salt required.

 

[E_B]

We strip till and bale straw. Just crack on with carting when it's dry, keep the trailer on tramlines at all times. If I know it's going to turn wet, I spend a day or so bunching the bales next to each other into trailer loads so to minimise tramping around in the wet.

Strip till more preferable than no till after a maize harvester. Also not brave enough to plant no till maize, plus can get DAP or MAP under the seed with a breaker leg.

Consider beans after grass, especially if you have a roller mill and want the protein in the ration. Also oats as a break for a friable stubble to drill into, plus you have the straw for feed or bedding. Volunteer wheat in the oat crop doesn't matter if you are feeding, but find them to be under 2% anyway. Might try some lower disturbance seeding this Autumn in this scenario due to the lack of herbicide options in oats.

We strip graze cattle on stubble turnips oversown into a standing barley crop. This is the weak point of the system because we have to plough behind the cattle for maize, incorporating some muck and taking out the poaching. Well rotted muck could surely be spread evenly from teamlines and drilled through, but it is the poaching overwinter that is the headache. Could try more a of cell grazing system but not sure how to do it with access to the water trough.

 

[teslacoils]

Why do you want to change?

 

[greenone11]

I live in western Canada and we have direct drilled for 30 years here. When starting just work into it slowly it is a learning curve. build your fertility first so it doesn't get stratified. deal with any issues before going no till. make sure you have a good straw chopper or bale your straw.

 

[yellow belly]

If using muck let it rot down a bit longer and spread it thinner
that way more acres benefit

 

[snarling bee]

and it’s heavy clay ( too heavy for roots really )

Its not heavy clay if you even consider roots IMO.

 

[Dan Attle]

Why do you want to change?

mixture of 2 reasons
1 time saving less hours on a tractor so i can be focusing on stock and other enterprizes
2 more flexible with wet weather and shorter windows of good weather and use alot less diesel and man hours

 

[EddieB]

As mentioned previously it is a good idea to let a contractor do a field for you to see how things work out. I used a contractor to DD afield for three seasons before I was confident enough to take the plunge. Talk to lots of people and read as much as you can. It can be a steep learning curve and I certainly got things very wrong last year.

 

[towbar]

Spring barley not a good starting crop in my experience. Personally think beans is a good start.

 

[Warnesworth]

Employ a decent advisor - if you can fine one.

In all seriousness don't fall into the trap of believing that just because you have grass in the rotation your soil will be rosy. How the grass is managed is key to grass improving soil quality, health and fertility.
Cereals DD into grass is never as straightforward as its seems too. That's not to say it cannot be done, just to says it has a higher risk of disappointment.

 

[Deutzdx3]

There are plenty of cheap drills out there that’ll lend them selfs to being converted to direct. Old horsch co. Old dumbs free flow. Alternatively make a toolbar or convert some thing a get a front hopper. Try it on 50 acres and go from there. No need to scare your self and confuse the hell out of your self. It’s a complex decision with all the possibilities of machinery but in essence it putting seed in the ground with out cultivating.

Tine drills are more versatile in general. Drill into wetter souls with them. Not so good for drilling into grass though. Discs not so great when really dry. As previously said, talk to farmers who are already direct drilling in similar situations to yours.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

We strip till and bale straw. Just crack on with carting when it's dry, keep the trailer on tramlines at all times. If I know it's going to turn wet, I spend a day or so bunching the bales next to each other into trailer loads so to minimise tramping around in the wet.

Strip till more preferable than no till after a maize harvester. Also not brave enough to plant no till maize, plus can get DAP or MAP under the seed with a breaker leg.

Consider beans after grass, especially if you have a roller mill and want the protein in the ration. Also oats as a break for a friable stubble to drill into, plus you have the straw for feed or bedding. Volunteer wheat in the oat crop doesn't matter if you are feeding, but find them to be under 2% anyway. Might try some lower disturbance seeding this Autumn in this scenario due to the lack of herbicide options in oats.

We strip graze cattle on stubble turnips oversown into a standing barley crop. This is the weak point of the system because we have to plough behind the cattle for maize, incorporating some muck and taking out the poaching. Well rotted muck could surely be spread evenly from teamlines and drilled through, but it is the poaching overwinter that is the headache. Could try more a of cell grazing system but not sure how to do it with access to the water trough.

Could try more a of cell grazing system but not sure how to do it with access to the water trough.

I have got these, and a pipe running up through the farm, with quick release connectors for each paddock, works really well, the only thing I would do differently is put the main as 32mm instead of 25mm (I think with the smaller pipe, you get more of a pressure drop with a smaller pipe). Kiwi Tech also do a micro trough for cattle.

Kiwitech Drag Trough and Pipe — Progressive Farming Company

Kiwitech Drag Trough. 100L trough with float, valve, trough tee and 8m 25mm pipe

www.progressivefarming.co.uk

 

[deleted user 837354]

It's really not rocket science.

Ok, you have loads of manure, pile that up and let it rot down. You can spread it on the surface after drilling in a dry year without making a mark. Failing that you could apply it thinly on the surface and then drill into it.

Get a contractor or local farmer to try their drill on a field or two, timing is important as is existing soil structure. With only 250 acres you don't want to be going out and trying to buy a new drill as they are all mega money. Try a claydon after the maize if it's a reasonable autumn.

You will gradually recalibrate yourself to accepting what a field should look like after drilling and gain experience on your dirt in your weather. It takes time to grow accustomed to the process and not be put off by unconventional seed beds.

 

[Audlem Agron]

I haven't read any of the responses above. The place to start if you want to go down this route is ask yourself why ? what is it you want to achieve ? When you are clear on this, then, PAY for advice. Dont do a thing until you have got someone on board who can explain what your soils need, what your rotation will look like ( and why) what issues to expect and how to deal with them, and how going from where you are to where you want to be will go. The drill - TEST them. Dont go for a deal go for the one that works ON YOUR SOIL. I work with many no-til customers, and the trick is to start from the right place, and head in the right direction.

 

[Brisel]

Hi all got 250 acre mixed farm with plenty of cattle which in turn means loads of fym currently growing grass for the horse market wheat , spring barley and maize ( may drop maize yet ) , thinking ahead the grass will help the soil structure and seems a shame to plough it up and it’s heavy clay ( too heavy for roots really ) . I’ve been looking at a sim tec my only questions are with the muck about the drill not blocking up and the wheelings from muck going on and straw being taken off
Thanks

I'm glad I used strip till drilling to ease the transition from full deep tillage to DD. Going cold turkey straight away is where many come unstuck when they see poorer crops in years 2-4 then run out of patience just as the soil is catching up. Go and see Jeff Claydon's Farm - he helpfully has neighbours who make a mess so make Jeff's crops look better. What Jeff doesn't do is low disturbance! He'll rake his stubbles repeatedly and play with the tools he's developing like the Terrastar, not just spray it off & drill direct.

Some good suggestions above. Join BASE UK, go to Groundswell and go and talk to people who are doing it for themselves. There are some good consultants around your part of the country who won't just charge you to tell you what you already know. https://groundswellag.com/agronomy/

 

[Dan Attle]

hi all bit of a update been looking more at something like a claydon as not convinced straight to no till would work mainly if it comes wet we will have alot of puddles ,thinking more claydon due to giving some drainage also a rotation change is maize is going and being replaced with whole crop ,

 

[redsloe]

hi all bit of a update been looking more at something like a claydon as not convinced straight to no till would work mainly if it comes wet we will have alot of puddles ,thinking more claydon due to giving some drainage also a rotation change is maize is going and being replaced with whole crop ,

I'm similar to your situation and started with a claydon last spring.
Ok so far.
Wheat after oats

Oats into long term ley

Barley after wheat, too many volunteers!

Wheat into long term ley.

 

[Brisel]

I'm similar to your situation and started with a claydon last spring.
Ok so far.
Wheat after oats

Oats into long term ley

Barley after wheat, too many volunteers!

Wheat into long term ley.

Looks good

Have you got access to a Terrablade inter row cultivator to take some of those wheat volunteers out in your barley?