Wheat T1

[Colin]

T0 Cherokee, t1 tracker/adexar, t2 adexar, t3 prosaro, CTL in every spray, might need mildewicide as well. Not used strob on wheat for a while.

 

[Clive]

First fungicide on wheat here going on now - I guess its a slightly late T0

1 L/ha CTL - £3.70
0.75 L/ha Teb - £6.03

fungicide spend = £9.73/ha

0.1 L/ha Trenexis - £1.91
1.25 l/ha CCC 750 £ 2.24

Growth reg spend = £4.15/ha

3L 15% manganese - £1.44
3kgs Mag sulphate - £0.86

Trace elemnent spend = £ 2.30

Overall spend = £16.18 /ha shopping on Farm Marketplace of course (apart from the magnanesse which I got slightly cheaper elsewhere !)

 

[Clive]

Has moving to direct drilling reduced the mn problem, you would hope it would by not moving the soil too much and leaving the ground firm?

massively so yes but its still a nutrient we apply (along with Mag) with every fungicide pass as even though we no longer see the extreme symptoms Im sure its not abundant and Mag / Mang are cheap trace elements in the grand scheme of things

 

[Feldspar]

Well I think our Skyfall, Siskin and Zyatt has skipped a leaf or done something weird. Have been dissecting busily and I'm pretty sure L3 is fully out in a lot with L2 poking out. That seems to put it a leaf ahead of the NIAB leaf emergence model. It does accept that timings may be earlier by 14 days or later by 7 days than their model (arguably making it not that helpful). @Fromebridge, how likely is it that I'm right and that I haven't missed a leaf? Spoke to our (telephone) agronomist this morning. He didn't rule out my thoughts, but said it was not likely. Messaged him this evening and he said from what he's seen today he thinks I could well be right. T0 has been on for barely a week, but there's Aviator in the shed to help to dodge the showers and we're going to start tomorrow. How rain-fast is CTL anyone?

 

[Feldspar]

Anyone using Elatus Era for T1? Have this as a suggestion from one agronomist (independent and motives trustworthy before you ask), but it's not listed in NIAB's candidates for T1. Struggling to find the time to do the normal analysis. Everything has happened rather quickly.

 

[B'o'B]

Well I think our Skyfall, Siskin and Zyatt has skipped a leaf or done something weird. Have been dissecting busily and I'm pretty sure L3 is fully out in a lot with L2 poking out. That seems to put it a leaf ahead of the NIAB leaf emergence model. It does accept that timings may be earlier by 14 days or later by 7 days than their model (arguably making it not that helpful). @Fromebridge, how likely is it that I'm right and that I haven't missed a leaf? Spoke to our (telephone) agronomist this morning. He didn't rule out my thoughts, but said it was not likely. Messaged him this evening and he said from what he's seen today he thinks I could well be right. T0 has been on for barely a week, but there's Aviator in the shed to help to dodge the showers and we're going to start tomorrow. How rain-fast is CTL anyone?

CTL stays on the leaf surface. Proper Bravo has “WeatherStick tech” to help it stay on the leaf.

 

[Feldspar]

CTL stays on the leaf surface. Proper Bravo has “WeatherStick tech” to help it stay on the leaf.

So OK how long before a light rain? Generic CTL so no WeatherStick.

 

[B'o'B]

Anyone using Elatus Era for T1? Have this as a suggestion from one agronomist (independent and motives trustworthy before you ask), but it's not listed in NIAB's candidates for T1. Struggling to find the time to do the normal analysis. Everything has happened rather quickly.

Elartus is supposed to have better than average persistence so may be worth considering as a T1 if you think T1-T2 may get stretched, but it would be a more natural fit as a T2 product and a very expensive T1 option.

 

[B'o'B]

So OK how long before a light rain? Generic CTL so no WeatherStick.

Someone (who would definitely know much more than most) told me one of the benefits of genetic CTL was it could be splashed up the plant by rain along with the septoria spores.

 

[Feldspar]

Elartus is supposed to have better than average persistence so may be worth considering as a T1 if you think T1-T2 may get stretched, but it would be a more natural fit as a T2 product and a very expensive T1 option.

This agronomist was saying 0.8 l/ha for more disease susceptible crops and 0.55 l/ha for less. Not as nuanced as the NIAB scoring system. Because he doesn't walk any of our crops and because I've taken a lot of his time recently I haven't had a chance for him to explain fully his thinking. Those doses bring the prothio dose down a lot compared to 1 l/ha Aviator. Aviator I have at about £34/l and Elatus Era is £47.90/l so 1.1 l/ha Aviator about the same as 0.8 Elatus Era. Not sure which is better value. Have ordered quite a bit of Aviator to be able to use it to dodge showers in any case. No info on rain-fastness on the Elatus Era label from what I can see.

 

[cricketandcrops]

Elatus a good product but why cut rate to 0.55? Is this to fit a budget? If so better using 1.0 Aviator

Aviator rainfast in 15 mins, pukka Bravo rainfast the minute it dries, generics less so

 

[Feldspar]

Elatus a good product but why cut rate to 0.55? Is this to fit a budget? If so better using 1.0 Aviator

Aviator rainfast in 15 mins, pukka Bravo rainfast the minute it dries, generics less so

I don't quite understand the logic. I haven't yet asked. Wasn't quite expecting T1 to appear quite so quickly! Will be on Aviator for the time being whilst the weather is catchy so may not even need to decide! Thanks for the info on CTL. What would you estimate for generics rainfastness?

 

[B'o'B]

This agronomist was saying 0.8 l/ha for more disease susceptible crops and 0.55 l/ha for less. Not as nuanced as the NIAB scoring system. Because he doesn't walk any of our crops and because I've taken a lot of his time recently I haven't had a chance for him to explain fully his thinking. Those doses bring the prothio dose down a lot compared to 1 l/ha Aviator. Aviator I have at about £34/l and Elatus Era is £47.90/l so 1.1 l/ha Aviator about the same as 0.8 Elatus Era. Not sure which is better value. Have ordered quite a bit of Aviator to be able to use it to dodge showers in any case. No info on rain-fastness on the Elatus Era label from what I can see.

I’m not a fan of dropped dose rates too much to make expensive products look competitive. I still want to keep a good slug of triazole in the mix. I might now change to 1L Adexar plus 0.25L generic epoxi plus CTL.
I have 2 fields of Skyfall were drilled first which I guess T1 will be about there on Wednesday. Most other fields close to a week away still I’d guess.

 

[Feldspar]

I’m not a fan of dropped dose rates too much to make expensive products look competitive. I still want to keep a good slug of triazole in the mix. I might now change to 1L Adexar plus 0.25L generic epoxi plus CTL.
I have 2 fields of Skyfall were drilled first which I guess T1 will be about there on Wednesday. Most other fields close to a week away still I’d guess.

That's what's making me so uncertain. Try as I might I can't find an extra leaf hidden to make the leaf that is completely out leaf 4 instead of leaf 3. Have done 15 plants or so. Agronomist said to check later drilled Santiago as he was sure that the leaf just poking would be leaf 3. Lo and behold the first plant I did of Santiago had an extra little leaf. Smallest leaf on Skyfall is 2cm long!

 

[cricketandcrops]

I don't quite understand the logic. I haven't yet asked. Wasn't quite expecting T1 to appear quite so quickly! Will be on Aviator for the time being whilst the weather is catchy so may not even need to decide! Thanks for the info on CTL. What would you estimate for generics rainfastness?

For me Elatus wants to be at 0.8 for wheat,

Not sure on generic CTL - Bravo contains weather stick and it works. Depends what else in tank

Xpro brands from Bayer some of the best rainfast products on the market too

 

[Feldspar]

Just put in an order for Bravo for delivery tomorrow. Supplier has already quoted and order now placed. Not bad service!

 

[Gong Farmer]

Our model is shifting earlier each week but most likely (and no offence) earlier dissections could have been wrong? Leaf 4 dissecting was very difficult this year as the flag leaf was tiny and easy to miss at that time. Model also applies to wheat sown end of first week of October. Got a meeting today so will be able to do more dissections and report back later.

If you've put a T0 on I can't see the need for Elatus at T1

If any spray is dry on the leaf it will take a shower.

 

[Feldspar]

Our model is shifting earlier each week but most likely (and no offence) earlier dissections could have been wrong? Leaf 4 dissecting was very difficult this year as the flag leaf was tiny and easy to miss at that time. Model also applies to wheat sown end of first week of October. Got a meeting today so will be able to do more dissections and report back later.

If you've put a T0 on I can't see the need for Elatus at T1

If any spray is dry on the leaf it will take a shower.

How big would you say the flag leaf should be now? With Skyfall I get a leaf that's nearly poking out, then a smaller one about 1-2cm long. In Santiago I easily found another smaller leaf of about 0.5cm size, but try as I might I could find no trace of the equivalent in Skyfall and Siskin.

With the 2cm leaf I try very carefully to unroll it but it often just detaches leaving the ear visible. Even then unrolling it in my fingers I can't see even a whiff of another leaf. As I said, very experienced agronomist said he found the same yesterday.

Edit to add: do you mean the current dissections are more likely to be right and it was the T0 timing that was wrong? I had slightly been following the NIAB local bulletins to guide me, thinking that our higher, heavier land must be later.

T0 was applied so what rate would you say was appropriate for Aviator? I was going off the medium risk heading in Strategies 4.

 

[Feldspar]

Can cereals actually 'skip a leaf' or is this a myth and it's rather a case of them just growing much faster than expected?

 

[Clive]

If your “t0” has only been on a week I really wouldn’t be panicing or pushing on in less than ideal conditions ?