Wheat T1

[franklin]

Or the wind and rain have kept you out of the field for 10 days after leaf 3 has been 3/4 emerged...

Would you have had the same difficulties when you farmed in the east? I reckon the whole fungicide approach is radically different only 4 hours down the road. I simply do not have the pressure of septoria that the chem companies seem to think I have. I have plenty of other problems, but very rarely one with timing of T1 or T2 fungicides or the extent of septoria you have.

Anecdotally, the taller strawed wheats seem to get more mildew, but less septoria / eyespot. Perhaps we have just bred some duffers, and adding 800kg/ha of AN probably doesnt help either.

 

[Feldspar]

If you are curing septoria, then you have either got too much land / too small a sprayer, or ballsed something up. Suppose you could say given that pearl of wisdom them CTL should be all thats needed.............or that there is no need for an azole partner, given no-one really gives a flying one about resistance management for septoria given the method it spreads.

How do y'all like those cans of worms?!

(Source: AHDB)


The CTL data point does show its power. Arguably it's the CTL along with the SDHI which is really the partner product doing the protecting of the SDHI with the triazole just tagging along for the party in case the farmer has screwed up the timings. Maybe, maybe not. That above link shows there's quite a bit not known about this sort of thing.

 

[Feldspar]

Would you have had the same difficulties when you farmed in the east? I reckon the whole fungicide approach is radically different only 4 hours down the road. I simply do not have the pressure of septoria that the chem companies seem to think I have. I have plenty of other problems, but very rarely one with timing of T1 or T2 fungicides or the extent of septoria you have.

Anecdotally, the taller strawed wheats seem to get more mildew, but less septoria / eyespot. Perhaps we have just bred some duffers, and adding 800kg/ha of AN probably doesnt help either.

Some of those septoria AHDB trials are with Dickens and Santiago in more septoriary areas than where you are. With something like Siskin in a lower disease pressure area, it's not surprising the yield effect is going to lessen. As I said, NIAB have some good work that teases this effect out much better.

 

[ollie989898]

Nothing wrong with vertisan. Gives you the ability to tank mix your chosen triazole and not be held over a barrel for it.

Wish we could get away with such modest programs here. Suicidal most years.

 

[Brisel]

Would you have had the same difficulties when you farmed in the east? I reckon the whole fungicide approach is radically different only 4 hours down the road. I simply do not have the pressure of septoria that the chem companies seem to think I have. I have plenty of other problems, but very rarely one with timing of T1 or T2 fungicides or the extent of septoria you have.

Anecdotally, the taller strawed wheats seem to get more mildew, but less septoria / eyespot. Perhaps we have just bred some duffers, and adding 800kg/ha of AN probably doesnt help either.

Much less septoria when I was on the Fens south of you. More worried about containing yellow rust back then. We seem to get very very few spray days down here, mostly due to rain or wind. Usually both. I had a dry year of only 32" in 2017. 34 days of measurable rain during harvest 2017. 24 days dry. £110/ha is a basic fungicide programme on wheat around here.

 

[Feldspar]

Had a look at our Siskin today and it seems to have quite a lot of active septoria in it. Certainly more than Skyfall. Currently deliberating over whether to go for 0.8 l/ha Aviator or epoxiconazole.

 

[Brisel]

1.0 Aviator + 1 CTL + 1 3C + 0.1 Freeze (trinexpac) + magnesium, copper & zinc
Lili is getting 1 Adexar instead plus the rest as above.
All had boron at T0 before this sample was taken. N2 was applied shortly after, before anyone picks me up on the lack of sulphur. High pH soil with high P index

 

[SilliamWhale]

Had a look at our Siskin today and it seems to have quite a lot of active septoria in it. Certainly more than Skyfall. Currently deliberating over whether to go for 0.8 l/ha Aviator or epoxiconazole.

I'll take a bet you go with Aviator

 

[Feldspar]

I'll take a bet you go with Aviator

Why? I think we might do some epoxi on some later drilled Skyfall. Siskin would have been my first choice to try this, but it's got more septoria in that I was expecting. I'm not sure just relying on its supposed 6.8 septoria score is enough.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Why? I think we might do some epoxi on some later drilled Skyfall. Siskin would have been my first choice to try this, but it's got more septoria in that I was expecting. I'm not sure just relying on its supposed 6.8 septoria score is enough.

Because I think like most of us you'd like to think of spending a bit less but then in the end you will think "sod it, safety first" and go with the SDHI like most of us!

 

[franklin]

Well, for a trial I am splitting a field. 10ha will get 1lt Aviator. Other 10ha will get 1lt of Mantra and some Bravo. Both work out the same price give or take. Litre of Bowman (epoxi) plus 0.75 Amistar Opti looks good value. Wheats here havent had N2 yet in the main.

The more I look at prices, the more I am convinced that something is being done to get prothio in all the mixes. Word is that there is a new BASF azole in the pipeline and I will hedge my bets to say it will appear about 5 minutes after prothio comes off patent.

Much less septoria when I was on the Fens south of you. More worried about containing yellow rust back then. We seem to get very very few spray days down here, mostly due to rain or wind. Usually both. I had a dry year of only 32" in 2017. 34 days of measurable rain during harvest 2017. 24 days dry. £110/ha is a basic fungicide programme on wheat around here.

You must have the patience of a saint. Our normal 550mm is far too much rain for me given the lack of heat.

How many applying close to a litre of Aviator are mixing CTL with it?

 

[ollie989898]

CTL is so cheap feel free to put it in however you like.

 

[robbie]

1.0 Aviator + 1 CTL + 1 3C + 0.1 Freeze (trinexpac) + magnesium, copper & zinc
Lili is getting 1 Adexar instead plus the rest as above.
All had boron at T0 before this sample was taken. N2 was applied shortly after, before anyone picks me up on the lack of sulphur. High pH soil with high P index

View attachment 663942

@Brisel how much boron are you planning to use to correct the deficiency you have? I've had a sample done on some wb and the only thing which is deficient is boron, I've given it 1 lt/ha with the T1 and was planning to give it another at T2 but don't want to over do it.

The mag and man was expected because of the nature of the land and lots of rapid growth, i sloshed plenty on with T1.

 

[Feldspar]

Because I think like most of us you'd like to think of spending a bit less but then in the end you will think "sod it, safety first" and go with the SDHI like most of us!

Well I'm trying to be true to my evidence based philosophy. On that basis we did not use a spring Proline for LLS despite one agronomist's advice because I don't think the evidence is there to support it. On the same basis, a pure CTL + epoxi programme for Siskin shows a higher margin (and actually the same for Skyfall) by a little bit. That's with no SDHI at T2 either. But you're right, the temptation to go with the SDHI as we have done for a while is there. I think where we can time L3 spot on (as we will do with some of the later Skyfall) I think I will. On the Siskin, if it looked as clean at the Skyfall, I would have done. But its upright nature means the septoria on the lower leaf tips are brushing right up against the now nearly fully emerged L3. Tricky one.

 

[B'o'B]

Well, for a trial I am splitting a field. 10ha will get 1lt Aviator. Other 10ha will get 1lt of Mantra and some Bravo. Both work out the same price give or take. Litre of Bowman (epoxi) plus 0.75 Amistar Opti looks good value. Wheats here havent had N2 yet in the main.

The more I look at prices, the more I am convinced that something is being done to get prothio in all the mixes. Word is that there is a new BASF azole in the pipeline and I will hedge my bets to say it will appear about 5 minutes after prothio comes off patent.



You must have the patience of a saint. Our normal 550mm is far too much rain for me given the lack of heat.

How many applying close to a litre of Aviator are mixing CTL with it?

Prothio is considered the least likely to be band as an endocrine disrupter which is why almost all new formulated products use it as the triazole element.

 

[Feldspar]

The problem I have every year is making a judgement about whether it's likely to be a year that gives above average or below average response to fungicides. I'm not sure if it's only possible to do this after the fact, or whether close attention to conditions / disease levels allow some degree of prediction. For example, how do I adjust what I'm doing based upon the heavy rain showers we have just had and the rain that is forecast in the next 5 days. Not entirely sure is the answer.

 

[Feldspar]

Well, for a trial I am splitting a field. 10ha will get 1lt Aviator. Other 10ha will get 1lt of Mantra and some Bravo. Both work out the same price give or take. Litre of Bowman (epoxi) plus 0.75 Amistar Opti looks good value. Wheats here havent had N2 yet in the main.

The more I look at prices, the more I am convinced that something is being done to get prothio in all the mixes. Word is that there is a new BASF azole in the pipeline and I will hedge my bets to say it will appear about 5 minutes after prothio comes off patent.



You must have the patience of a saint. Our normal 550mm is far too much rain for me given the lack of heat.

How many applying close to a litre of Aviator are mixing CTL with it?

What price are you getting Aviator and Bowman for? I have £33.25/l and £13.50/l respectively.

 

[robbie]

What's mantra priced at now if I remember it used to be about £22 lt, i havent used it for a few years it was a good product and well priced.

 

[Brisel]

@Brisel how much boron are you planning to use to correct the deficiency you have? I've had a sample done on some wb and the only thing which is deficient is boron, I've given it 1 lt/ha with the T1 and was planning to give it another at T2 but don't want to over do it.

The mag and man was expected because of the nature of the land and lots of rapid growth, i sloshed plenty on with T1.View attachment 663946

It had 1 litre of 15% boron with T0 applied after my sample. It's not supposed to be very mobile in the plant but it's only a trace element, so not much required IMO.

 

[Flat 10]

It had 1 litre of 15% boron with T0 applied after my sample. It's not supposed to be very mobile in the plant but it's only a trace element, so not much required IMO.

And too much is not good for cereals? Not sure but think you can slosh it on beet and osr but caution is advised with cereals if I remember. It might have been @Fromebridge who mentioned this before.