Wheat T1

[John Slejpner]

Well, for a trial I am splitting a field. 10ha will get 1lt Aviator. Other 10ha will get 1lt of Mantra and some Bravo. Both work out the same price give or take. Litre of Bowman (epoxi) plus 0.75 Amistar Opti looks good value. Wheats here havent had N2 yet in the main.

The more I look at prices, the more I am convinced that something is being done to get prothio in all the mixes. Word is that there is a new BASF azole in the pipeline and I will hedge my bets to say it will appear about 5 minutes after prothio comes off patent.



You must have the patience of a saint. Our normal 550mm is far too much rain for me given the lack of heat.

How many applying close to a litre of Aviator are mixing CTL with it?

Static i might have to give up membership of the "Mantra at T1 - obviously" club, despite having it in shed ready to go.

For example Montana direct drilled 30th Oct continuous wheat. Not too high a seed rate as advised, it looked ok for its drilling date but absolutely nothing to get excited about pre first N early march.. .a lovely dark green and no visible disease of any sort is all you could say for it. Good disease scores so at least fung cost can be in the Siskin 60-70 quid bracket.
Or so i thought.
In march following N1 50 kg it went mad !!! Most other wheat i have stayed put or went backwards, but this Montana has its own plan and apparently it eats Beasts from the East for breakfast.
Now its plenty thick enough, the two pgr's in T0 (applied the evening the heatwave broke) are belatedly getting to grips with straw strength...and the alto elite wont have done much yet esp as YR not present.
But oh my golly gosh...what a shedload of septoria there is all over those leaves that were so healthy looking even a few weeks ago, as they stand, moddused to attention, rubbing themselves all over leaves 4 and 5.

Long day i'm rambling sorry.

Given decent disease scores and a very open crop stand at least till mid march, if montana has this much septoria where is everything else at? More or less the same.

This might be the one season in 10 / 20 or a generation where the "we don't do septoria we do yellow rust" mob might have to depart from past experience and react to what is in the field here and now.

On friday i meet agronomist and topic A on MY agenda is Mantra out SDHI in. Dave is not a fan of SDHI at T1 because he is independent, TAG influenced, and has never seen it pay on his patch.
This might be the year it DOES pay. (Here - i do appreciate in septoria land 2 SDHI is a no brainer)

I'll report back later how meeting goes

 

[John Slejpner]

And too much is not good for cereals? Not sure but think you can slosh it on beet and osr but caution is advised with cereals if I remember. It might have been @Fromebridge who mentioned this before.

A litre of 15% B now or T1 will do no harm only help facilitate that nice potassium status to properly do it's job.
IIRC Boron is to be avoided around flowering on grasses, (as for sure copper is to be avoided)

 

[franklin]

What price are you getting Aviator and Bowman for? I have £33.25/l and £13.50/l respectively.

Not saying it's a cartel, of course, but every quote for Aviator has been £166 for 5 litres. I think it is a product that folk have been told there is no discounting if they want it as there is no alternative at the same price point. If you go Adexar etc prepare for a serious testing of the anal circumfrerence. Generic epoxi I have prices from £75 to £67.50 for 5 litres.

 

[Flat 10]

Its good to have you back but your anus gets mentioned far too much on fungicide threads........

 

[robbie]

And too much is not good for cereals? Not sure but think you can slosh it on beet and osr but caution is advised with cereals if I remember. It might have been @Fromebridge who mentioned this before.

That's my worry. I've heard that too much cab be toxic to cereals but I've got everything else right and I don't want so spoil it with too little boron on the other hand I don't want to fudge it completely with too much.

Plan is another 1lt with T2.

 

[franklin]

What's mantra priced at now if I remember it used to be about £22 lt, i havent used it for a few years it was a good product and well priced.

A shade dearer now. You would have enjoyed it for the mildewicide too, as would any eastern Claire growers who used a litre at T1 and T2. For a similar price of a litre of Mantra you can buy a litre of generic epoxi and a good slosh of Amistar Opti and get the slug of strob and some CTL.

There is no doubt that you can get a pretty serious epoxi-based T1 for around a tenner a hectare less than an Aviator based one. And thats a tenner less than a Elatus + CTL. But no-one in the west is going to cock up a decent looking wheat now for £4 an acre, and this is one of a few times where insurance-based spraying might pay.

Anyway, as said I am a week to 10 days away from T1, and thats before the weather gets in the way.

Look at Farm Marketplace. How many T1 products do you see? Does that tell you something about T1 and T2 product pricing?

For those with a shed of Mantra, I would happily take some off your hands at a good discount as for me it is a great product for oats.....if I get the buggers drilled.

 

[John Slejpner]

The problem I have every year is making a judgement about whether it's likely to be a year that gives above average or below average response to fungicides. I'm not sure if it's only possible to do this after the fact, or whether close attention to conditions / disease levels allow some degree of prediction. For example, how do I adjust what I'm doing based upon the heavy rain showers we have just had and the rain that is forecast in the next 5 days. Not entirely sure is the answer.

Surely though we can see the weather we have just had , make an assumption about the near term future forecast, and evaluate crop disease levels in field...

...and quite possibly conclude, unusual though it is, that me might as well have been somewhere like Shropshire so far this season.

 

[franklin]

Its good to have you back but your anus gets mentioned far too much on fungicide threads........

When Bayer and co have already pulled your pants down and bent you over, there are few places left to go. With next years barley / wheat area I may as well just book an IBC of proline and have done with it.

 

[robbie]

What do you think of ascra, same price as aviator but a higher loading of 2 sdhi's.
Adexar is dear but mixing your own is more expensive, call me a sceptic but are the prices fixed to make us by the pre mixed.
Don't even get me started on the siltra/ aviator farce to products the same but with different labels and its

Not saying it's a cartel, of course, but every quote for Aviator has been £166 for 5 litres. I think it is a product that folk have been told there is no discounting if they want it as there is no alternative at the same price point. If you go Adexar etc prepare for a serious testing of the anal circumfrerence. Generic epoxi I have prices from £75 to £67.50 for 5 litres.

What do you think of ascra, same price as aviator but a higher loading of 2 sdhi's.

Adexar is dear but mixing your own is more expensive, call me a sceptic but are the prices fixed to make us buy the pre mixed products.

Don't even get me started on the siltra/ aviator farce two products the same but with different labels and its £16 litre different if that isn't stretching ones anus I don't know what is.

 

[franklin]

What do you think of ascra, same price as aviator but a higher loading of 2 sdhi's.

I'd say that fluopyram is the spiroxamine of SDHIs. And I would rather a litre of Aviator than a litre of Ascra. Ditto a litre of Aviator over a litre of Skyway xpro. Ascra great for mildew.....but any better than the same price Aviator + mildewicide? Skyway great for brown rust......but any better than the same price of Aviator + straight teb / amistar?

Note, I am not an agronomist. Just a bitter and twisted man.

 

[franklin]

Ask yourself this - if fluopyram is so great, how come there is only one product for wheat which has it in? Also ask "is this product something I can only get from Agrii?" Its been around almost 10 years and its in one wheat product? :saddest face:

Any product that is the same price per litre as Aviator but with less prothio / bixafen and a bit more "something a bit bobbins to make up the difference" is not a win for me.

 

[franklin]

Boogie Xpro......
Helix.....

Things like these make me get out the worlds smallest violin and play the worlds saddest song.

 

[robbie]

I'm glad your back!!! That's answered that one for me good and proper.

 

[Feldspar]

What do you think of ascra, same price as aviator but a higher loading of 2 sdhi's.
Adexar is dear but mixing your own is more expensive, call me a sceptic but are the prices fixed to make us by the pre mixed.
Don't even get me started on the siltra/ aviator farce to products the same but with different labels and its What do you think of ascra, same price as aviator but a higher loading of 2 sdhi's.

Adexar is dear but mixing your own is more expensive, call me a sceptic but are the prices fixed to make us buy the pre mixed products.

Don't even get me started on the siltra/ aviator farce two products the same but with different labels and its £16 litre different if that isn't stretching ones anus I don't know what is.

I have prices for Imtrex and Epic that put it cheaper than the equivalent of Adexar.

 

[robbie]

My maths, from my prices make it £2.20ha saving over a litre of adexar.

 

[Feldspar]

My maths, from my prices make it £2.20ha saving over a litre of adexar.

About what I have. A small saving, but worth it nonetheless, and I quite like the flexibility afforded by being able to vary the doses of the constituent parts of Adexar

 

[B'o'B]

From Trainline trial I did last year 1.2L Ascra (80% full rate) significantly out performed 1L Aviator (80% full rate) at T2 in yield and margin, but it is costing you 20% more and would you be as well just putting 1.2L Aviator on? I don’t know.

 

[Brisel]

Siltra and Aviator have very different prices for one reason - because they can. The wheat market is much more competitive & with epoxiconazole off patent this has undermined the margins. The barley market is much less competitive hence the bigger price tag and label on Siltra. It's not surprising that Aviator isn't allowed on barley & no one sensible would apply Siltra to wheat (barley & oats only on the label anyway).

 

[Brisel]

NIAB TAG did some useful work on the new generation SDHI fungicides like Ascra. If you're a member, it's worth looking at the data

 

[Clive]

About what I have. A small saving, but worth it nonetheless, and I quite like the flexibility afforded by being able to vary the doses of the constituent parts of Adexar

I can’t recall the detail now but I recall a conversation with a BASF field manager that gave me a decent explanation of why there was a disadvantage to this approach when I was going to do similar - will see if I can ask him to remind me or explain on here

My t1 and t2 this year is going to be quite influenced by what I have in stock as I appear to have over ordered adexar, librax and aviator last year plus I bought pallets of ctl back in the autumn pre price rises !