When renting a property do you include white goods or not?

[ringi]

Biggest headache we find is organising to get things like gas and electric checks, repair etc done when it’s convenient for both tenants and the trades people. It’s a nightmare, usually just let them sort it between themselves on whatsapp etc but things sometimes take months!!

I always get the trade person to phone the tenant to short out the appointment.

To find tenants I now use https://www.openrent.co.uk but that depends on being able to do viewings yourself.

I am a member of https://www.nrla.org.uk/ to get access to their advice line and letter templates etc, I have also done their free online training.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I know,wire the dishwasher,fridge,electric fire etc to a fused spur and you don’t need to test it.

You still have a duty of care to ensure that all electrical equipment supplied is safe and suitable for use - how can you do that without a periodic inspection/test?

 

[Doing it for the kids]

You still have a duty of care to ensure that all electrical equipment supplied is safe and suitable for use - how can you do that without a periodic inspection/test?

I think it falls under the 5 yr elec inspection

 

[TheTallGuy]

I think it falls under the 5 yr elec inspection

Not necessarily - unless specific licence conditions are set by the local authority a risk assessment needs to be made and an appropriate schedule needs to be set. If there is a fire or someone gets electrocuted then the landlord has to prove due diligence, for which "I cut the plug off to avoid paying for inspection and testing" doesn't cut it.

 

[Blue.]

You still have a duty of care to ensure that all electrical equipment supplied is safe and suitable for use - how can you do that without a periodic inspection/test?

I don’t sign up to this bush1t,pat testing isn’t a legal requirement anyway.

 

[Raumer]

A viewpoint from the renting side. We've been in rented accommodation for the last 5 years as I have been changing jobs. Now in our third rented house in the third different place in the country.

For white goods we mainly have our own. We only expect to see white goods included if they are either integrated or a particular odd fitment. Our first rented place had a combined fridge/freezer and the kitchen units were built right up to the edge of it. Therefore you would have to buy an exact size one to replace. This I would expect to be included.

But in general other than the cooker & hob I wouldn't be expecting anything else. Just leave the space for generic appliances.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I don’t sign up to this bush1t,pat testing isn’t a legal requirement anyway.

You are correct in that "PAT" (technically ISITEE as PAT has always been a bit of a misnomer) isn't an explicit legal requirement, but a landlord providing electrical equipment does have a legal responsibility to ensure that the equipment is safe - how do you achieve that without some form of inspection/testing? You'll also likely find that most insurance companies will require a testing regime.

 

[Farmer 059]

We farm and run a top end lettings business. There are now over 175 rules and regulations covering rented property, and compulsory regulation for landlord and agents is looming (Wales already has this socialist led legislation).
99% of our rentals are unfurnished (carpet, cooker and curtains). Any additional built in appliances would be the landlords obligation to replace. GSI and EICR, mandatory CO alarms and smoke alarms are all required (but we still see too many properties self managed that fail on these points). PAT testing is essential, unless you are happy to stand up in court and justify why you did not bother. It’s cheap, and could avoid a £5k fine or 6 months in prison! If you self manage, get tenants referenced by an accredited agent (RICS or ARLA), but be aware, too many agents have no training or qualifications. A good agent will offer free advice and as stated by others, be happy to recommend tradesmen.
You should be aware of Right to Rent checks, deposit legislation, tenancy law, the powers of local councils to enforce or prosecute worst case examples.
I wouldn’t get an unqualified “vet” to my cattle, unless you have the time to invest as some above have done, consider a good agent ( via recommendation) and sleep well at night!

 

[Lincsman]

Out of interest, what does a pat test find that the rcd,s don't?

 

[suffolksmallholder]

We farm and run a top end lettings business. There are now over 175 rules and regulations covering rented property, and compulsory regulation for landlord and agents is looming (Wales already has this socialist led legislation).
99% of our rentals are unfurnished (carpet, cooker and curtains). Any additional built in appliances would be the landlords obligation to replace. GSI and EICR, mandatory CO alarms and smoke alarms are all required (but we still see too many properties self managed that fail on these points). PAT testing is essential, unless you are happy to stand up in court and justify why you did not bother. It’s cheap, and could avoid a £5k fine or 6 months in prison! If you self manage, get tenants referenced by an accredited agent (RICS or ARLA), but be aware, too many agents have no training or qualifications. A good agent will offer free advice and as stated by others, be happy to recommend tradesmen.
You should be aware of Right to Rent checks, deposit legislation, tenancy law, the powers of local councils to enforce or prosecute worst case examples.
I wouldn’t get an unqualified “vet” to my cattle, unless you have the time to invest as some above have done, consider a good agent ( via recommendation) and sleep well at night!

You mention curtains.
I wonder if you have had these fire rated or are they certified as fire-proof?

If the answer is no then get rid pdq
SS

 

[ringi]

Out of interest, what does a pat test find that the rcd,s don't?

A cable the tenant has damage with the aim of using the damaged cable to make a legal claim against the landlord.

 

[ringi]

You mention curtains.
I wonder if you have had these fire rated or are they certified as fire-proof?

Being able to prove when and where you brought them can cover that.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

A viewpoint from the renting side. We've been in rented accommodation for the last 5 years as I have been changing jobs. Now in our third rented house in the third different place in the country.

For white goods we mainly have our own. We only expect to see white goods included if they are either integrated or a particular odd fitment. Our first rented place had a combined fridge/freezer and the kitchen units were built right up to the edge of it. Therefore you would have to buy an exact size one to replace. This I would expect to be included.

But in general other than the cooker & hob I wouldn't be expecting anything else. Just leave the space for generic appliances.

Which part of the country have you seen this out of curiosity?

 

[Farmer 059]

You mention curtains.
I wonder if you have had these fire rated or are they certified as fire-proof?

If the answer is no then get rid pdq
SS

Fire and furnishing regs apply to anything foam filled, ie sofas, mattress, loose cushions etc. curtains and wooden furniture not under the scope of the regs.

 

[Farmer 059]

Out of interest, what does a pat test find that the rcd,s don't?

PAT testing checks the item is safely connected to the supply, ie metal lamp not having an earth issue and is not providing any adverse readings. We recommend nothing supplied that plugs in (mowers, kettles, lamps etc). Fitted appliances will have moulded plugs and are easily checked. RCD will normally trip when the hair tongs, iron etc overload the circuit! Get everything unplugged and get tenants to plug such items in one at a time before you send out your sparkie!

 

[suffolksmallholder]

PAT testing checks the item is safely connected to the supply, ie metal lamp not having an earth issue and is not providing any adverse readings. We recommend nothing supplied that plugs in (mowers, kettles, lamps etc). Fitted appliances will have moulded plugs and are easily checked. RCD will normally trip when the hair tongs, iron etc overload the circuit! Get everything unplugged and get tenants to plug such items in one at a time before you send out your sparkie!

The bane of my life dodgy items tripping the electrics!
Out with google translate and there could be three different languages or my attempts at pantomime. Best when children are home as they speak English and enjoy the challenge of unplugging which is a game to them and makes me laugh.
Find fault and everyone is happy again.
SS

 

[Lincsman]

PAT testing checks the item is safely connected to the supply, ie metal lamp not having an earth issue and is not providing any adverse readings. We recommend nothing supplied that plugs in (mowers, kettles, lamps etc). Fitted appliances will have moulded plugs and are easily checked. RCD will normally trip when the hair tongs, iron etc overload the circuit! Get everything unplugged and get tenants to plug such items in one at a time before you send out your sparkie!

Rcd,s do not detect overload, the mcbs do that. My toaster and kettle have moulded plugs but they would be pat tested in a office situation.

 

[Raumer]

Which part of the country have you seen this out of curiosity?

In order - Leicestershire, Gloucestershire and now Nottinghamshire. A lot depends on the Landlord and we have had both good and bad. We have rented houses so expectations may be different for flats.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Out of interest, what does a pat test find that the rcd,s don't?

A correctly done appliance test will detect things like insulation breakdown & that the appliance functions correctly/safely - things like on-off switches actually work and that the appropriate fuse is fitted. I recently found a heater that had insulation breakdown live-neutral at the cable entry - that wouldn't trip an RCD, but was close to catching fire. Often see low power appliances with a 13A fuse, or even Chinese kit with fuses that aren't even connected!

Unfortunately with the race to the bottom appliance testing is often cut down to the bare minimum & done by people who've attended a 1 day course if you're lucky. It's a similar situation with EICR's - far too many drive by cowboys undercutting those doing a proper job.