YAGRO

[Steevo]

Slightly off topic but its the same with buying groups- there are a whole load of extra people that have to be paid.

My chemical/seed/fert buying group only has two people total. Makes for very keen prices.

 

[Flat 10]

My chemical/seed/fert buying group only has two people total. Makes for very keen prices.

I think there are more than that at AF which is the one I looked at...........

 

[Clive]

Slightly off topic but its the same with buying groups- there are a whole load of extra people that have to be paid.

its not just admin that makes buying group expensive, they are often complicit with the distribution price fix cartel to make sure they get "deals" from them

chemicals cost a LOT less than we all pay when they leave the manufacturer, just price stuff up abroad where they don't have the distribution set up we have in the UK, some interesting comparisons well beyond currency and logistical differences

 

[Brisel]

I think there are more than that at AF which is the one I looked at...........

That's a fair comment! The bigger buying groups have this problem. Lots more management layers & admin, yet the goods price to the farmer is the same as the smaller leaner ones like @Steevo 's. The theory is that scale increases buying power yet there seems to be a price very few will go below.

 

[Brisel]

its not just admin that makes buying group expensive, they are often complicit with the distribution price fix cartel to make sure they get "deals" from them

chemicals cost a LOT less than we all pay when they leave the manufacturer, just price stuff up abroad where they don't have the distribution set up we have in the UK, some interesting comparisons well beyond currency and logistical differences

PM me the evidence for this please. The "trust" deals from the group have been better than anything else I have seen posted in TFF, though not all of the time - you and a few others do get a couple of quid cheaper on a few products.

Of course we pay a margin to the distributors - delivery & storage costs money. Be careful that you're comparing like with like when you look abroad. Many years ago late Godfather teamed up with local farmers in Suffolk to fetch a lorry load of Dicurane from France for half the price, only to get it home and find it was half the strength too...

I agree about admin costs though.

 

[SilliamWhale]

My chemical/seed/fert buying group only has two people total. Makes for very keen prices.

Who are they?

 

[Feldspar]

Well I tried to have a quote from Yagro and only one firm came back to me. I then compared it with Agrii, Agrovista and Procam quotes for a pile of products and there was very little in it. The motivation wasn't big enough to deal through Yagro this time because at the very least if I deal with Agrii (I do usually) I can ring up and ask the odd question, delivery is very efficient, get 8 weeks to pay and can send the odd thing back or exchange items.

So I'm still interested in Yagro but the smaller independent suppliers need to be cheaper again for it to work for me. I have used Rotam/Killgerm this year and made a decent saving quite quickly so that worked well.

This is the problem we have. Big supplier will give best service and prices, but as they become bigger and bigger they will eventually possess such a stranglehold on the market that they won't have to give you good prices. Is there any argument for still placing some business with smaller suppliers to help keep some diversity?

 

[SilliamWhale]

This is the problem we have. Big supplier will give best service and prices, but as they become bigger and bigger they will eventually possess such a stranglehold on the market that they won't have to give you good prices. Is there any argument for still placing some business with smaller suppliers to help keep some diversity?

I suppose another pretty simple way and not that time consuming is to get your list of chemicals your pretty sure your going to use in March and then ask for the prices on them then. Then buy accordingly. I have to say the service from Agrii for me is first class - pretty much every time I order something up til 9pm it will be there by the end of the next day and sometimes you can't put a price on that.

BUT - if a smaller leaner upstart comes along and says we will supply most of your standard fodder for the season and courier it to you in bulk and you have two months to pay and the discount is reasonable then you'd have to go there. I think Yagro's potential may be on that side of things ie using lower cost distributors and maybe collecting bulk orders.

 

[Feldspar]

I suppose another pretty simple way and not that time consuming is to get your list of chemicals your pretty sure your going to use in March and then ask for the prices on them then. Then buy accordingly. I have to say the service from Agrii for me is first class - pretty much every time I order something up til 9pm it will be there by the end of the next day and sometimes you can't put a price on that.

BUT - if a smaller leaner upstart comes along and says we will supply most of your standard fodder for the season and courier it to you in bulk and you have two months to pay and the discount is reasonable then you'd have to go there. I think Yagro's potential may be on that side of things ie using lower cost distributors and maybe collecting bulk orders.

Have to agree on delivery. We can ring up to order chemical at 8pm and it's often in the store by 8am the next morning. Deliveries on some Saturdays too.

 

[Farma Parma]

Local Agchems supplier will run a 55mile round trip with a 5lt can if i need it....
6 days a week. no extra charge.
stuff here sometimes same day if agronomist is here in morning.

 

[Farma Parma]

Local Agchems supplier will run a 55mile round trip with a 5lt can if i need it....
6 days a week. no extra charge.
stuff here sometimes same day if agronomist is here in morning.

And return anything unused for full refund no hassle atall
Theres no much unused in my agchem store i can tell you that.

 

[Farma Parma]

90days payment terms does help aswell.
Sum canny Invoices here now, thankfully there will be sum Harvest £££ gathered in to fund it.

 

[farenheit]

I went off them sadly when they started blogging (and advertising on twitter) continuously about why generics were the superior choice to R+D products. Its sad that the distributors have abandoned them, but they are now just going to become a race-to-the-bottom supplier which clearly isn't the sort of high-quality brand image they originally set out for. They must be finding it very difficult.

If you want to get an idea of where the business model is now going, this is on their blog. They aren't interested in quoting you for Bravo anymore, they want to convince you to get Rover and presumably get a larger cut of that high margin business. I'm not sure its as good for agriculture in general though:

To discover new generic alternatives and compare their prices, try creating a request on Yagro today. There are no commitments and it's totally free!

 

[Steevo]

I went off them sadly when they started blogging (and advertising on twitter) continuously about why generics were the superior choice to R+D products. Its sad that the distributors have abandoned them, but they are now just going to become a race-to-the-bottom supplier which clearly isn't the sort of high-quality brand image they originally set out for. They must be finding it very difficult.

If you want to get an idea of where the business model is now going, this is on their blog. They aren't interested in quoting you for Bravo anymore, they want to convince you to get Rover and presumably get a larger cut of that high margin business. I'm not sure its as good for agriculture in general though:

To discover new generic alternatives and compare their prices, try creating a request on Yagro today. There are no commitments and it's totally free!

There is nothing wrong with Rover or Joules. I've seen research data showing Rover to give superior performance to Bravo in fact.

I agree race to the bottom is never good...but competition is healthy.

 

[farenheit]

There is nothing wrong with Rover or Joules. I've seen research data showing Rover to give superior performance to Bravo in fact.

I agree race to the bottom is never good...but competition is healthy.

Thanks for the reply Steevo, apologies as they were probably not great examples, and I agree that they are both relatively comparable products. However perhaps as a matter of principle, on the platform if one asked for Bravo they should primarily get quotes for Bravo, maybe with the subtle "Have you perhaps considered"... judging from the language on their blog, and the current suppliers, it would perhaps be the case that if you asked for Bravo you would get a choice of everything but? I'm afraid thats conjecture as I haven't used it personally on my farm, although I have seen it used! (You must think i'm just a massive stirrer!)

 

[An Gof]

Thanks for the reply Steevo, apologies as they were probably not great examples, and I agree that they are both relatively comparable products. However perhaps as a matter of principle, on the platform if one asked for Bravo they should primarily get quotes for Bravo, maybe with the subtle "Have you perhaps considered"... judging from the language on their blog, and the current suppliers, it would perhaps be the case that if you asked for Bravo you would get a choice of everything but? I'm afraid thats conjecture as I haven't used it personally on my farm, although I have seen it used! (You must think i'm just a massive stirrer!)

I buy both Bravo and generic CTL for specific purposes. I need quotes and supply of both products from the suppliers I use.
Similar examples for other a.i.'s that I use.
I've registered with Yargo but have yet to get around to trying them.

 

[Steevo]

Thanks for the reply Steevo, apologies as they were probably not great examples, and I agree that they are both relatively comparable products. However perhaps as a matter of principle, on the platform if one asked for Bravo they should primarily get quotes for Bravo, maybe with the subtle "Have you perhaps considered"... judging from the language on their blog, and the current suppliers, it would perhaps be the case that if you asked for Bravo you would get a choice of everything but? I'm afraid thats conjecture as I haven't used it personally on my farm, although I have seen it used! (You must think i'm just a massive stirrer!)

Haha, far from it!! A good forum poster!!

I think Yagro give you the option of "allow alternatives" or "don't" as a tick box. Sensible idea then everyone is happy.

I find Yagro a little too slow for my liking on chemical. When I want to order chemical, I want it for next day. By the time I've typed it in, waited for quotes, accepted etc and (not placed a chem deliver yet) possibly waited a day or so for delivery it drags a bit.

Currently I email and order off, by end of following day (usually by midday) the chemical is in my store and ready to spray. No extra steps, just send one 5s email.

 

[farenheit]

Currently I email and order off, by end of following day (usually by midday) the chemical is in my store and ready to spray. No extra steps, just send one 5s email.

Yes, this is the same as how I do it. It comes down to how much we value our time (something I feel that farmers are generally atrocious at doing). Yagro appears to be pretty quick but the faff of setting up accounts with each company, and - as you said- waiting for the quotes to come through isn't ideal. If for example you need an insecticide spray quickly then its not going to be the platform to use, but would probably be good for getting in autumn glyphosate for example.

I think it was just their language wound me up a little. They went from talking about how great it was that all the distributors are on board to saying "we don't need them, because actually generic products are far better and cheaper!". A thriving generic market is fine, but of course depends on a well supported R+D sector further upstream. It perhaps goes back to the slight hypocrisy(in my view) of farmers who insist that people should buy quality British food as we have better welfare standards and then go and buy the cheapest chemical they can find. Lets not forget that R+D companies also support a massive amount of jobs in the UK (in research, manufacturing and sales). I absolutely do buy generic chemicals but its a balanced amount.

As a side note, I enjoy their blog post "Top 5 generic products" even more as the agronomists featured didn't want to use their surnames! OK...now I'm being the hypocrite...

 

[Will Wilson]

trouble is such a big % of the market is controlled by so few that they black ball such things and then they don't really work as well as they should

I agree with your sentiment entirely though, and we are all our worst enemy in this, just don't know quite what the solution is yet, I am trying to find it though !

The solution is education.

 

[richard hammond]

The solution is education.

People are scared of change (education nearly always mean change), I feel so many people have been brain washed or scared into doing things that if looked at logically they would not do!
Sometimes in agriculture the hardest thing is to do nothing!! but also the easiest thing is to ask for no change!!